Bangkoktraveler Posted May 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 rogueyam said [color:red]"The proof you claim to seek is at the link I have already provided."[/color] No it is not. I think this is where we differ. The link, you provided, makes statesments but does not quote source material. You have made statememts that I am a communist and a leftist but so far, you have not provided any information to support your position. Sounds very similar to your link. Since you claim I am a leftist and a communist, I can assume that leftist and communist believe in having weapons (if they so choose) to protect themselves. Want to see a smaller government. I would like to see the governmemt about the size it was around 1800. I would also like to see taxes done away with and the federal governmemt to operate on the income sources they did for the first 100 years of existence. Sound like a communist rogueyam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 ry, I notice you don't deny the truth in Israeli Benny Morris's original article about the rapes, massacres and systematic ethnic cleansing in 1948 by Jewish militias [which must have been a significant factor in Palestinians' fleeing a war zone - seeing my next door neighbour's daughter raped and her parents murdered would certainly have focused my attention] I'm sure that the Palestinians had in 1948 as they do now some super bigots urging followers to drive Israelis into the sea. Just as Israel had its own fanatics then in the Irgun, Lehi and Stern gangs, led by ex-terrorist future Israeli prime ministers even, Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, and more recently Meir Kahane and the Kach Party The more desperate people get, the more willing to jump on the bandwagon of religion. The EU commented the other day that isolating Hamas is having a counter productive effect... creating more jihad martyrs. I think the main point of Benny Morris's Newsweek article is his conclusion, which you don't quote. "For all its economic, political, scientific and cultural achievements and military prowess, Israel, at 60, remains profoundly insecureâ??for there can be no real security for the Jewish state, surrounded by a surging sea of Muslims, in the absence of peace." i.e Israel needs to make peace too ... and soon, while agreements and pan Arab recognition deals are on the table, and before neighbouring countries and extremist groups such as Hezbollah get more sophisticated weapons. Time is not on Israel's side. Off on my travels again later today for 4 months in Europe and the Near East with a pilgrimage to another example of the madness and tragedy of war ... Gallipoli. So, ... cop u later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted May 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Where is rogueyam's reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 He probably didn't get the updated talking points yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 I think the main point of Benny Morris's Newsweek article is his conclusion, which you don't quote. "For all its economic, political, scientific and cultural achievements and military prowess, Israel, at 60, remains profoundly insecureâ??for there can be no real security for the Jewish state, surrounded by a surging sea of Muslims, in the absence of peace." i.e Israel needs to make peace too ... and soon, while agreements and pan Arab recognition deals are on the table, and before neighbouring countries and extremist groups such as Hezbollah get more sophisticated weapons. Time is not on Israel's side. I did not interpret Morris' conclusion the same way that you did. I thought it was unclear but what I took away from it was that Morris now understands the Arabs and Muslims to be waging jihad to eliminate Israel and that therefore negotiations leading to genuine security for Israel are impossible unless and until the Arabs and Muslims change their own minds regarding the very existence of a Jewish State anywhere in the Middle East. I do not believe that there are presently any "agreements and pan Arab recognition deals" on the table, and I think the whole point of Morris' piece is that he now thinks this too whereas previously he didn't, hence his transformation from a dove to a hawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Where is rogueyam's reply to my last question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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