Bush bailout for Dummies

[Tiger Moth]

There are retired GM workers, people with no education and no skills, receving $100,000 a year in pay and benefits. >>

 

Got a link to that?

 

No. But, before I do some research, care to make a bet about whether or not I can substantiate it?

 

I worked for a large Corporation with very good benefits but, not as good as UAW workers. The cost of the benefits were about 30% of the salary. UAW workers 15 years ago earned well in excess of $50M a year. Often retirement benefits are based upon the average income during the last 3 years of work. I have known union workers who have earned twice their salaries due to OT in their last 3 years of work in order to increase their retirement pay. Add in benefits, cost of medical coverage, etc and what do you get?

 

I have made an unsubstantiated statement. Again, care to place a wager that I can or can not substantiate it?

[..]

Being an auto industry guy, yeah. I'll take that bet. NFW.

 

Cheers,

SD

[..]

So, let's bring about the reality that actually already exists, most American workers are vastly overpaid in a global economy and their expectations are outdated. Let's face reality now rather than later.

Boy, you've bought into the conservative bullshit hook-line-sinker haven't you? They are only overpaid because the big boys on top are not satisfied with a 50x ratio of their pay to the plebes. They need 400+x now, so the profit has to come from somewhere.

 

Basically, as Henry Ford knew all too well, if you do not pay your employees right, then they cannot buy your product and you go out of business.

 

Cheers,

SD

[Al]

There are retired GM workers, people with no education and no skills, receving $100,000 a year in pay and benefits. >>

 

Got a link to that?

 

No. But, before I do some research, care to make a bet about whether or not I can substantiate it?

I have made an unsubstantiated statement. Again, care to place a wager that I can or can not substantiate it?

 

I don't doubt you can find a case of this, like Reagan's storied cadillac welfare queen.

 

But how typical is it?

 

My father was a union employee for a GM-like corporation in a different sector, so I know what is typical with their pension. They basically were able to continue their upper-working class/ lower middle class lifestyle, with no frills. No $100K/yr lifestyle.

 

While you check this out, for our amusement be sure to check out how many Walmart working class employees are getting a pension like that.

 

 

[Al]

So' date=' let's bring about the reality that actually already exists, most American workers are vastly overpaid in a global economy and their expectations are outdated. Let's face reality now rather than later.[/quote']

Boy, you've bought into the conservative bullshit hook-line-sinker haven't you? They are only overpaid because the big boys on top are not satisfied with a 50x ratio of their pay to the plebes. They need 400+x now, so the profit has to come from somewhere.

 

Basically, as Henry Ford knew all too well, if you do not pay your employees right, then they cannot buy your product and you go out of business.

 

Cheers,

SD

 

Aside from that, being overpaid in comparison to the world is more a matter of currency exchange rates than everything else.

Let us say that the Thai Baht was exchanged to the US Dollar 1 to 1. That 150 Baht a day would look pretty good, right?

 

I will have to dig it up, but in a book by Paul Krugman, at least in the 20th century, he reports that the average worker's wage increases kept pace with productivity. That seems to me to be fair. But I don't think that is the case today.

 

Now with the ever increasing US trade imbalance, it seems that in the future, the dollar will be going down.

 

[..]

Anyway, that's beside the the point. Let's get back to this stupid bailout. It looks to me that we are now at $1.8 *trillion* with the new Paulson "plan." Just what does that mean? How about some current budget numbers to compare:

* Veterans' benefits at $73 billion

* Education was $90 billion

* Interest on US debt was $244 billion

* Medicare $395 billion

* Defense was $548 billion

* Social Security was $586 billion

 

And let's add the biggest retailer in the world, WalMart. They *grossed* $388 billion lat year.

 

And now Paulsen says he wants to include foreign owned banks (such as Phil Gramm's employer UBS) in the windfall. WTF?

 

I see one of three things happening now:

a) the GOPers bloviate, the will Dems cave-in and it is passed as is. 80% chance.

more shit'll hit the fan, they're be a panic, and we'll end up with more useless legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley. 15% chance.

c) the Dems will step up, block this mess, come up with a better plan, and write some decent oversight back into the financial sector. 5% chance.

 

I'm obviously not confident in the Dems. But if they don't, they've lost me forever -- I'll pull all assets I can out of the States as quickly as I can and turn my back on it. I encourage y'all to do the same!

 

Cheers,

SD -- this is looking to me to be the biggest heist in history, and not a gun used

[kamui]

The German government just announced, that they agree to GWB's bailout plan, BUT they won't support it financially.

[chuckwoww]

Now that's what I call a hedge bet.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Anyway, that's beside the the point. Let's get back to this stupid bailout. It looks to me that we are now at $1.8 *trillion* with the new Paulson "plan." Just what does that mean? How about some current budget numbers to compare:

* Veterans' benefits at $73 billion

* Education was $90 billion

* Interest on US debt was $244 billion

* Medicare $395 billion

* Defense was $548 billion

* Social Security was $586 billion

 

And let's add the biggest retailer in the world, WalMart. They *grossed* $388 billion lat year.

 

And now Paulsen says he wants to include foreign owned banks (such as Phil Gramm's employer UBS) in the windfall. WTF?

 

I see one of three things happening now:

a) the GOPers bloviate, the will Dems cave-in and it is passed as is. 80% chance.

more shit'll hit the fan, they're be a panic, and we'll end up with more useless legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley. 15% chance.

c) the Dems will step up, block this mess, come up with a better plan, and write some decent oversight back into the financial sector. 5% chance.

 

I'm obviously not confident in the Dems. But if they don't, they've lost me forever -- I'll pull all assets I can out of the States as quickly as I can and turn my back on it. I encourage y'all to do the same!

 

Cheers,

SD -- this is looking to me to be the biggest heist in history, and not a gun used

 

 

To bring things into perspective, the bail out might be at 1.8 trillion dollars but the USA collects less then 1.3 trillion dollars in personal Federal taxes last year!

[kamui]

One reasoning by the German government is:

 

The US Feds were instrumental in enforcing tight rules for banks in the Basel II accord. These rules were implemented by Europe and all European banks by 2008, while the US hasn't even started the implementation process.