chuckwoww Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 You mean some kind of double-standard!! Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 You mean some kind of double-standard!! Amazing. Double standard by the US government? Never! :content: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 So' date=' let's bring about the reality that actually already exists, most American workers are vastly overpaid in a global economy and their expectations are outdated. Let's face reality now rather than later.[/quote']Boy, you've bought into the conservative bullshit hook-line-sinker haven't you? They are only overpaid because the big boys on top are not satisfied with a 50x ratio of their pay to the plebes. They need 400+x now, so the profit has to come from somewhere. Basically, as Henry Ford knew all too well, if you do not pay your employees right, then they cannot buy your product and you go out of business. Cheers, SD Lets see, I took a 30% salary+Benefit cut, lost my pension, the CEO got a 38 Million dollar bonus...other top execs did well...yep I'M over paid...want to level the field? maybe cut a 0 off everyone's salary, and everyone's debts...stays relative, and we are now as poor as the under privileged countries...maybe best we all live on nothing but food and lodging given to us by our employers...a total return to the serf days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 I just posted over the weekend it wouldn't be close to 700 billion and in a day or so its now up to 1.8 trillion. We all know it will double 1.8 trillion before all is said and done. If Obama or McCain were smart they'd tap into the anger and say they are against the bailout right now, let the big banks fail. The administration and some pols will cry out its irresponsible but the average citizen would love it. Furthermore, they would be correct. These big firms have given these pols huge money and now we are expecting these pols to do right by us? Its quid pro quo. Bush and everyone else from both parties running around like they are chicken little and the economic sky is falling. Some of the congressmen who were skeptical and against a bailout initially said after coming out of the meeting they were convinced the bailout was the best thing to do. These congressmen aren't finanical gurus. They don't know shit about the economy anymore than most of us on this forum. They are listenting to the same guys who helped cause it either by allowing it and not stopping it or actively involved in changing the rules to enable the banks to do it in the first place. The Treasury and the Fed Reserve are covering their asses. Of course they will paint the gravest picture of what may happen. They want to scare anyone into backing it. Its the economic equivalent of WMDs in Iraq. We don't know what will happen if the biggest banks fail. It may be the best thing for the system. The roots of it all is still there. This bailout solves NOTHING! The free market is doing its job. Its getting rid of bad management. Let it do its job. Either we are in a capitalistic society or we're not. Oh and by the way. Here comes the tax increases to pay for it all. If anyone thinks McCain or Obama won't be able to raise taxes on all us, I'd like to buy a dime bag of what you're smoking. They will have no choice. The loser in this election may be the winner when all is said and done. The mess that the winner will inherit is unprecedented. The war is siphoning off billions, the bailout is costing trillions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 You know what's really insidious. Paulson will buy the banks 'assets' at higher than the private market is willing to pay. Hedge funds would be happy to buy that paper but not at the price the banks are asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 the Dodd proposal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Just to add to the problems, oil recorded a record one day rise of $16!!!!!!!! Upto $120 again. Looks as though someone really wants to finish off the US economy.... Stocks went down sharply again too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Moth Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Lets see, I took a 30% salary+Benefit cut, lost my pension, the CEO got a 38 Million dollar bonus...other top execs did well...yep I'M over paid...want to level the field? maybe cut a 0 off everyone's salary, and everyone's debts...stays relative, and we are now as poor as the under privileged countries...maybe best we all live on nothing but food and lodging given to us by our employers...a total return to the serf days... Unless things have changed or I am mistaken, you work in the airline industry. And, did maintenance work on jets (which my son did in the US Navy - which has no relevance to this discussion). Anyway, I agree you got fcuked, just like current GM workers are being fcuked today. I am seldom eloquent. My basic point, which of course I didn't express, is that people in the past were overpaid and received excessive benefits (and the cost of these retired workers has to be factored into the current cost of products - such as, GM cars - which contributes to GM not being competitive in the world market). Corp execs are often overpaid by gross amounts. But, I would have to say that, if you find a competent one, lets take Lou Gerstner, former CEO of IBM (one of my former employers as an example) - a competent exec who can take a company that is going downhill rapidly towards eventual disaster (Gerstner's predecessor was going to break IBM up and sell its components, yet today it is a 90 billion a year Corp) than, yes, the Exec is worth millions. But, often, as in the case of GM, you have an someone who rides the pony down and down and down but still cashes in many millions a year. Naturally, an incompetent should not be rewarded and there are many who are - frankly, I don't understand why. But, in your industry, and I worked as a Flight Attendant for several months (no, I am not gay), look at Senior Pilots earning about $150M a year. These guys are limited to 80 hours flying time a month. A senior pilot is way up on the bidding list. So, he flys from LA to Paris (18 hours round trip, stays is a fine hotel between the to and from flight (goes to the fitness center at the hotel, get a sauna, maybe get a bj from one of the flight attendants). The craft he is flying is fully automated so that he really only works about 1 hour, during takeoff and landing). He does this 6 times a month. And, because he has been around, he arranges with his buddies to trade trips and loads all his trips into the first 2 weeks of the month. Did this bozo really deserve almost $200M a year with benefits thrown in to fly to Paris 5 times, stay in a first class hotel and really work, what, 10 - 20 hours and have 2 weeks off every month? This is the type of mismanagement that led to the current conditions in the US airlines. Mismanagement - in compensation for pilots and flight attendants (who, with seniority did the same thing with lower compensation but, still close to $100m a year including benefits). So, I am not talking about people like you, I am not talking about the people at the counter who were not well paid and put up with all the bullshit. I am with you regarding compensation for incompetent execs (how hard did these Execs push during the glory days on fuel prices, catering costs......... You are a skilled worker. I know the training my son went through in order to be responsible for the electrical/computerized components of an F14. I also had knew guys who worked for GM in New Jersey who had no education and no skills and were still highly paid. I am currently in Phnom Penh - the weather here is the best I have ever experienced. Sunny days, no humidity.. and I have come down with a head cold. So, if you can make any sense out of anything I have said, "God, bless you (as W would say))". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Moth Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Being an auto industry guy, yeah. I'll take that bet. NFW. In 2 minutes I google I came up with the following: "Using figures from this page on the UAW's website, I've calculated that the "typical GM assembler" will earn nearly $73,000 a year over the 4 years of the 2007 contract. This does not includes benefits.". So, with benefits, over $100M. Before I put anymore effort into this, I would like to know what the bet is. What will I win after I prove my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 the Dodd proposal Looks to me like Dodd played along with the "this is urgent" call and has now presented the "if this is so urgent, show us what it's really worth to you" card. Good on him. This looks more like a plan I can possibly get behind (too early to tell yet). At least it is a serious attempt to solve the problem, preserve accountability, and balance the equities. Too bad he isn't the VP nominee. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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