Tiger Moth Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Frankly, I feel like I am living in a bad fairy tale (well, not living in US but still paying taxes). I have to admit the situation in the US is beyond my understanding but seems totally crazy. Here are some of the things that I believe to be the case but would be happy to have anyone point out errors in my perception. The people on Wall St who in the last few years made $millions, in some cases 10's of $millions and in some cases 100 or more $million through the creation of unsound investment instruments based upon unsound mortgages are left entirely whole. Some may be unemployed, but, they are still sitting pretty in their multi-$million homes with their private jets, etc. Retired UAW workers will apparently lose their medical benefits but, these Wall St. people have had to pay no penalty whatsoever. While so much is being made of a $16Billion "bailout" of the US Auto Industry, $610Billion has already been spent on the Iraq war. Now this money has not gone into the pockets of the US military (a small portion has). Apparently the money has gone to weapons manufacturers, companies like Haliburton (awarded the first multi $billion reconstruction project - Vice President Cheney, formerly President of Haliburton), line the pockets of Iraq politicians to "influence" the decisions they make (in a "Democratic" society). Iraq has a population of 27.5 million (California, 37.5), so, the US has spent approx. $25,000 per Iraq citizen - $100,000 for a family of 4. While much of the publicity related to the US housing situation concerns lower, middle class citizens being forced out of their homes, wealthy US citizens with multiple homes, who purchased a home for say $5million, now worth $4million, are walking away from the homes and mortgages at the expense of US taxpayers (Jose Canseco,former baseball player of steriod fame is one who has done this) and nothing is done to stop this "abuse". Am I missing something? Is it possible for the US Government to be soo incompetent and crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 None of it would be possible if the population hadn't been sedated by crap television, drugs, too much food and a mountain of consumer garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I can't find it at the moment, but one paper (Time Magazine?) had a breakdown of the 75 USD. This is the number the Big Three are usually using in the fight against higher wages. Actually a worker is earning around 55 USD, while at Toyota et al a worker ears 45-48 USD a hour. BUT a large part of the margin is the payment to retired workers which is much higher for the Big Three since they have to pay for much for their retirees than Toyota for a very simple reason: Toyota started in the US decades after the Big Three... I doubt there is a person who does not wish they could make the same amount of money as the employees from the big 3. If the big 3 lose their benefits and get pay cuts, who will be next? Do we really want global equalization, especially when it comes to wage and benefits? If we cut the benefits from the older employees and those retired, is that really a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 So you're saying the big 3 should continue operating at a loss to protect non-union workers down the chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 The ugly part of completely free-market capitalism is that some people might have to starve or die in order for markets to correct themselves. Somewhere in the middle is a balanced and humane answer for how we live/work with one another. Isn't productivity/profits a means rather than the ends? I agree that failing businesses can't be supported forever. That doesn't mean there can't be a more orderly phase out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 An orderly phase out sounds OK. I just don't see it as management bad, workers good. And how do those UAW workers feel about the non-union people? They probably see them as a bunch of scabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 US Steel (USX) has already eliminated the medical insurance for their retired employees some years back. Maybe the auto industry is just catching up? What may happen, not if but when the autoworkers start to lose their pay and benefits, they will go on strike and the US auto industry will shutdown. The management of the auto workers would love to see that happen, then they will walk away with their "golden parachutes" and blame the collapse on the unions! A disaster waiting to happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Maybe the big 3 could just limp along if it wasn't for the banking crisis. That seems to be where the blame should lie. Auto-workers should march on Wall Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Am I missing something? Is it possible for the US Government to be soo incompetent and crazy? Of course it can and it is. The only differnece now is that its on a scale that could tip us over once and for all. I'm using our allowing financial institutions to run amok as part of the incompetence equation. For years we've wasted untold trillions. I read once where the Defense department has about a trillioin dollars over a generation that has gone completely unaccounted for and no one knows where it went. Nothing can or will get done because the politicians are owned by the various special interests. Most laws and regulations are made with the special interset in mind first. We shouldn't be shocked at all. The states are even worse. There aren't too many states that can survive without federal money in some form or fashion. It used to be states, espcially southern ones, screamed for 'states rights' now they suck on the teat of the federal government. They can't run their schools without the department of education money. They can't build roads, create a bus or train line without department of transportation money. They can't have health care with out medicaid, medicare, etc. We've been in decline for years its just so bad that the average person realizes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I can't find it at the moment' date=' but one paper (Time Magazine?) had a breakdown of the 75 USD. This is the number the Big Three are usually using in the fight against higher wages. Actually a worker is earning around 55 USD, while at Toyota et al a worker ears 45-48 USD a hour. [b']BUT a large part of the margin is the payment to retired workers which is much higher for the Big Three since they have to pay for much for their retirees than Toyota for a very simple reason: Toyota started in the US decades after the Big Three...[/b] I doubt there is a person who does not wish they could make the same amount of money as the employees from the big 3. If the big 3 lose their benefits and get pay cuts, who will be next? Do we really want global equalization, especially when it comes to wage and benefits? If we cut the benefits from the older employees and those retired, is that really a good thing? So many things are interrelated. If we had proper health care for all it would help to greatly solve some of the costs of the car makers as well as other industries like the steel industry, etc. The same can be said of a proper pension system. The government agency that guarantees pensions is our tax money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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