Bye bye GM/Chrysler/Ford??

[driftwood]

 

I always wonder if GWB was not elected in 2000, would the 'attack' of September 11, 2001 have not occurred?

 

IMHO, I'm sure it still would have happened. Al-Qaeda attacked the USS Cole during the Clinton administration and the planning for the 9-11 attacks where well on their way before the 2000 elections.

[driftwood]

I can't find it at the moment, but one paper (Time Magazine?) had a breakdown of the 75 USD. This is the number the Big Three are usually using in the fight against higher wages. Actually a worker is earning around 55 USD, while at Toyota et al a worker ears 45-48 USD a hour.

 

BUT a large part of the margin is the payment to retired workers which is much higher for the Big Three since they have to pay for much for their retirees than Toyota for a very simple reason: Toyota started in the US decades after the Big Three...

 

On Mondays NPR's Talk of the Nation had a good breakdown of the cost. It is 30 min long if you feel like listening to it.

 

Talk of the Nation 12-8-2008

 

[Steve]

I have little sympathy for the banks and car companies (as well as other companies). Banks have been f**king us for years by 'fee-ing' us to death for every little thing. Charging about $3 for the use of our own money each time we go to another branch which is bullshit. I belong to a credit union and I can go to the ATM at other credit unions and almost always, I am not charged a fee at their ATM. Oh, and banks have been lobbying the government to basically kill off credit unions. Legislating away the competition basically although CUs are only 6% of all banking. Now we are bailing them out so they can still rape us. This time they'll increase the fees and find other ways to f**k us and say they have to so that they can stay competitive.

 

Some banks have also been charging us to come in to branches for the privilege of getting our own money. They want to force us to go online and use ATMs. You don't have to pay the internet or an ATM machine $8 an hour to deposit your check or make a withdrawal or transfer monies between accounts. I understand but they have done so many other things to nickel and dime us to death. Not just them, the airlines as well. Car companies make a ton of money off over charging us for parts. Try getting a little 'thingamajing' that looks like it cost 10 cents to make at a car dealership and they charge you $4.99 for it.

 

Due to greed, lack of planning and the constant pressure of being publicly traded companies with shareholders demanding they meet their quarterly estimates, the car companies have not been planning well enough for the long term. Quality has changed and they do have well built cars now but the damage to their reputation was already done years ago when they made cars with the intention of them falling apart in a couple years so you'll come back and buy another one out of brand loyalty. Trust me, they'd have packed up and built all their cars in 3rd world countries long ago if they could have gotten away with it.

 

We like to brag about how communisim failed and it was destined to? Has the free market failed as well?

 

Okay, the big 3 as we know it die off. Reorganize, become a much smaller operation. Millions (I'm including people and businesses both large and small) no longer have jobs and businesses.

 

What happens now after they fail? What replaces those jobs? America was no longer a manufacturing nation anyway. We're a service oriented country and have been for some time and even some of that (customer service, support desks) are outsourced overseas in India and other places.

[allistar]

I've got a new "first" for any bank that I've dealt with over the years. For the last 3 years, I've received checks from a Canadian, written on a canadian bank in U.S. dollars and for the past 2 years, Bank Of America took the checks for deposit (I had to wait 2 weeks for the funds to show up in my account but that was no big deal for me). This year, even though it was the same kind of check, B of A says they have to send the check for collection. After 4 weeks, I call them and ask how much longer it will be. Two weeks later, I call again and they are able to put the funds in my account the next day. The check was for $1,600.00 (U.S. currency). They put $1,483.00 in my account. They charged $40 for collection (that pissed me off but I can live with it for this one time) but they claim that the canadian bank had a fee of $77.00 but they can't document it. I called the fellow that wrote the check and he called his bank and was told that there was no fee on the part of his bank. B of A will do nothing and I am contemplating taking them to small claims court over the $117.00. I don't think that B of A will have my business much longer!

[Bangkoktraveler]

Yes one big mess...strange how some companies bought many other even recently and now they basically say:

" we are short on cash"..

 

 

Business was good when gas was not $4.50 a gallon and the dollar had some value to it.

 

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

I've got a new "first" for any bank that I've dealt with over the years. For the last 3 years, I've received checks from a Canadian, written on a canadian bank in U.S. dollars and for the past 2 years, Bank Of America took the checks for deposit (I had to wait 2 weeks for the funds to show up in my account but that was no big deal for me). This year, even though it was the same kind of check, B of A says they have to send the check for collection. After 4 weeks, I call them and ask how much longer it will be. Two weeks later, I call again and they are able to put the funds in my account the next day. The check was for $1,600.00 (U.S. currency). They put $1,483.00 in my account. They charged $40 for collection (that pissed me off but I can live with it for this one time) but they claim that the canadian bank had a fee of $77.00 but they can't document it. I called the fellow that wrote the check and he called his bank and was told that there was no fee on the part of his bank. B of A will do nothing and I am contemplating taking them to small claims court over the $117.00. I don't think that B of A will have my business much longer!

 

 

Even when the banks screw up and rape us good, they have a tendency now to not talk to us. I was told by one bank they could not provide me with any information but if my lawyer should write them, then they can provide some information.

[buffalo_bill]

If the community would for a moment forget about romantic support for the poor working class , the truth looks as follows :

 

- any monies can only be spent once at origin

 

- after having been spent they do not come to rest ; they are just in somebody else's pockets , keep on circling , create inflation and thus pollute the economic environment .

 

How attractive is the idea to feed already inflated US-dollars into the pockets of an oversized industry with inferior products ? Is it useful to feed x-thousand workers til the day of truth comes anyway ?

 

The automotive marketplace has been kept alive for years by ceating a non-existing demand by offering means of payment which are not based on a tradesman's reasonable thinking . What you see by now is just the final accounting , death by overstretching .

 

Anything on earth is a balance sheet , you get the bill for sure . Chapter 11 is the reasonable answer .

[allistar]

Then the $64,000 question is whether the car buyers in the U.S. will buy a car from an automaker in bankruptsy. Chapter 11 hopefully would get rid of many of the legal agreements/arrangements between the automakers and the auto dealers and, more importantly, would get the UAW to negociate a new contract that would eventually get what UAW workers are getting in line with what non-UAW worers are getting. The U.S. taxpayer will have to pay to make up for any shortfalls in the UAW worers healthcare costs and probably in other areas.

[Steve]

I've got a new "first" for any bank that I've dealt with over the years. For the last 3 years, I've received checks from a Canadian, written on a canadian bank in U.S. dollars and for the past 2 years, Bank Of America took the checks for deposit (I had to wait 2 weeks for the funds to show up in my account but that was no big deal for me). This year, even though it was the same kind of check, B of A says they have to send the check for collection. After 4 weeks, I call them and ask how much longer it will be. Two weeks later, I call again and they are able to put the funds in my account the next day. The check was for $1,600.00 (U.S. currency). They put $1,483.00 in my account. They charged $40 for collection (that pissed me off but I can live with it for this one time) but they claim that the canadian bank had a fee of $77.00 but they can't document it. I called the fellow that wrote the check and he called his bank and was told that there was no fee on the part of his bank. B of A will do nothing and I am contemplating taking them to small claims court over the $117.00. I don't think that B of A will have my business much longer!

 

There was a law in the '90s that banks had one day to clear checks. When I changed jobs and deposited my first paycheck, I set up automatic deposit. They told me I would not have access to my money for a week while they 'clear the check'. I pointed out the law to the bank manager and he said it was 'company policy' to hold on to the first check to open an account for a week however he would make an exception if I checked in a couple days to see if it was cleared. Basically banks were doing this to get the use of our money.

 

Your example and mine and other such acts were done routinely. Many companies deposit monies for automatic deposit a day before but banks make money off overnight possession of the funds. They charge way more than the cost of printed checks. They charge to get copies of canceled checks, even if you are required in a lawsuit, divorce or the IRS to provide copies. They charge way more than they have to for bounced checks. They and other companies have small hidden fees that nickel and dime us.

 

F**k the banks and f**k the car companies as well. They've been robbing us blind in fees, etc. for years. All companies do now: cable companies, retail companies with gift cards that expire and they keep the money, brokerage firms with 'non activity' fees that basically say unless you do something with the money that generates more money for us, we'll just take it, despite the fact they can get interest on our money. The government has been doing it as well.

 

F**k em all!

[Steve]

Then the $64,000 question is whether the car buyers in the U.S. will buy a car from an automaker in bankruptsy. Chapter 11 hopefully would get rid of many of the legal agreements/arrangements between the automakers and the auto dealers and, more importantly, would get the UAW to negociate a new contract that would eventually get what UAW workers are getting in line with what non-UAW worers are getting. The U.S. taxpayer will have to pay to make up for any shortfalls in the UAW worers healthcare costs and probably in other areas.

 

There is a whole generation of Americans that have grown up being told that Japanese cars are better quality. Just about ever American under 30 who is going to buy a car and asks for advice is told to buy a Toyota or Honda.

 

Now with the car makers in trouble, as you intimated, will the consumer feel comfortable buying an American made car?

 

It will need great marketing and PR. I recall the PR on the Saturn. Articles and discussions about how well made it was, how it competes with Japanese cars in every category and even exceeds it a few.

 

Maybe a new name, new PR machine has to accompany whatever phoenix comes out of the ashes of the car industry after bankruptcy or bailout.