.. Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Aye. RY is an unfortunate fallout of the right to free speech. So while I think him the biggest moron on the planet, I fight for his right to pollute the inter-tubes with vile bullshit, and truly enjoy hanging him out to dry on a regular basis LOL... Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 RY is sometimes right when he doesn't speak about politics... 75$/hour? If so I dump my job immediately to become a car factory worker, but I know that salaries in my little "niche" in the US (in the best areas) are around 120-150K USD/year and I also damn know that they are far above the average income of many people (just because there are not near enough qualified people in the field) Taking my calculator -> if car factory workers really make 75/hour someone will need to explain me why they can make more than what I am making... HJ/FF = you should look at payscales in your own country before telling crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Some hope? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7779981.stm But reading this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7780118.stm I feel that these people have no take on reality for some of them... You get paid the wages you are qualified for and you don't spend money you don't have or spend more than you can afford.... Also, saying this is the fault of "foreign car makers" is a bit too easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 drogon, second link not found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Works for me. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driftwood Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 75$/hour? If so I dump my job immediately to become a car factory worker Taking my calculator -> if car factory workers really make 75/hour someone will need to explain me why they can make more than what I am making... It is my understanding the workers do NOT make $75/hour. That $75/hour is the cost to the company. It includes health care cost, unemployment insurance the company has to pay out, fund the retirement plans of the workers that have already retired and any other benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 75$/hour? If so I dump my job immediately to become a car factory worker Taking my calculator -> if car factory workers really make 75/hour someone will need to explain me why they can make more than what I am making... It is my understanding the workers do NOT make $75/hour. That $75/hour is the cost to the company. It includes health care cost' date=' unemployment insurance the company has to pay out, fund the retirement plans of the workers that have already retired and any other benefits.[/quote'] It also includes the administration costs to the company for all of this...which can be a manipulated number. Administration always drives up the cost, look at the medical industry. Something is going to be worked out, and all will be happy except the hourly workers. This is about the destruction of wealth, the destruction of the middle class etc. Never mind who fucked it all up, the same people will be required to fix it, and the same (different) people will benefit from it all. Like it or not, the hourly workers WILL have to takes hits and make changes if they want to keep working, and really, they have no other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I can't find it at the moment, but one paper (Time Magazine?) had a breakdown of the 75 USD. This is the number the Big Three are usually using in the fight against higher wages. Actually a worker is earning around 55 USD, while at Toyota et al a worker ears 45-48 USD a hour. BUT a large part of the margin is the payment to retired workers which is much higher for the Big Three since they have to pay for much for their retirees than Toyota for a very simple reason: Toyota started in the US decades after the Big Three... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Gotta agree with SD on this one (the wage issue of the UAW). I am not a fan of unions by and large. I grew up in a city where unions were very corrupt and a cash cow for the mob. I was certainly no fan of the UAW as well. However, facts are facts and that $75 an hour is intellectually dishonest. Some in the media and in Washington include the legacy costs, etc. without saying that the number includes that. Depending on the plant, there are some Toyota plant workers making more. Also, what hasn't been said is that a lot of southern states (Kentucky, Alabama) who just happen to have Republican senators and/or Congresspersons are where foreign car makers (and competitors of detroit) not only have their plants but in most cases tax payer money was used to lure them there in various forms (free or cheap land, state and local tax abatements, etc.). These plants do are non UAW plants as well. It could be views as not only a conflict of interest and may even be regarded as undermiing one of the last American owned manufacturing industries we still have within the country. I am not a fan of bailouts and I was against the bank and financial institution bailout. Why is it okay to bail them out and not the car makers? Either both or none at all. The car makers caused less mess than the banks did. Far, far less. It wasn't the car makers that has caused the over all economic conditions. If the big 3 go under, there will still be an automotive industry, it just won't be American and it won't be in the rust belt states of Michigan, Ohio, etc. it will be in the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I am not a fan of bailouts and I was against the bank and financial institution bailout. Why is it okay to bail them out and not the car makers? The biggest reason for the bank bailout was the example of Japan in the 90s. No one wants to be another Japan where a popping asset bubble and rash of bank failures triggers a decade long deflation. I don't agree with everything Paulson/Bernanke have done but have to admit they made some ballsy and politically suicidal moves to try and prevent a chain-reaction disaster. It's less clear the impact of big 3 chapter 11. I think we will survive it without triggering depression but your guess is as good as mine. My first car was a Buick. I'll never drive another GM car again. First impressions die hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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