chuckwoww Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 So the real issue is then: were the police, the prosecutor and the tribunal when enforcing and implementing the law in this case unduly influenced by an agenda of their own or political or other forces ("authorities") outside the realm of the law as such? I can't really comment on what motivated them to arrest him. There must be something we don't know. My guess is he pissed some Thais off somehow....maybe by bragging about how he taught illegally? Maybe something personal? Maybe his jackass attitude? Just guessing. He published his book a couple of years ago and the offending passage I read wasn't too shocking really. Maybe they just picked him to make an example of. And it's almost certain he'll be pardoned. I still think Thailand will weather this bit of negative publicity...if that's what it is. A lot of pro-Thai bloggers think they handled it quite well. The message got sent loud and clear....respect Thai laws and institutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, Chuckwoww, knock it off! The subtle snipes are not funny. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Sorry KS but I really resent being called a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, Then take it to PTs and work it out. These snipes remind me of childish bickering. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 To the extent we can discuss it, this is a very interesting subject, and I really don't want to get diverted into argument about CW's prior posts, so he get's the last word on that (CW: consider this an olive branch). But there are two other issues emerging here that are I think are very interesting and worth discussing. First, how and to what extent can we really discuss Harry's or any other case. I am not only referring to the constraints this board understandbly imposes on such discussion, but also our ability to discuss the issue. Someone here said: â??We can debate the extent to which Harry broke the law.â? Actually we canâ??t. Sincerely, this is really not intended as a jibe, but rather as an illustration of the problem with this law. If you read this as saying "we are capable of having a debate about whether Harry broke the law", the answer is "no, we are not." Why? Well, as Shygye correctly points out, "no one knows what constitutes a violation of lese majeste.â? If we don't know what constitues a violation of les mejeste, how can we discuss whether someone violated the law? But wait, it gets even more difficult. I cannot access anything about what the author said from inside Thailand now. And I really didn't pay close attention when I read excerpts since it stuck me as all meaningless blather. Maybe I am not as sharp as others here, but I could not make much sense about what he wrote. It's all 1984ish. He broke the law, but we can't show you the evidence or explain how or why. Just take our word on it. The second issue is the tactical issue I brought up before and Playthetunes did a very good job of summarizing: So. if yes to the question above, did "Thailand shoot itself in the foot"? In terms of negative international publicity, yes. My copy of The Economist didn't show up again. Guess why? You'll have to tell me, since it doesn't seem to be available here. When papers of record like The Economist are censored it speaks volumes. The International media doesn't miss this sort of thing. It's a brick through the living room window. It get's their attention. But my copy of the Bangkok Post did arrive today. And I saw this: Currently, there are over 10,000 websites deemed offensive to the monarchy. The Information and Communication (ICT) Ministry has been able to block only 2,000 sites. The Justice Ministry will coordinate with the Foreign Ministry to launch a campaign among foreigners to educate them about lese majeste laws. Justice Minister Pirapan Salirathavibhaga said he would coordinate with the Foreign Ministry to instruct all Thai embassies abroad to launch public relations campaigns about lese majeste laws which impose harsh punishments on those who insult the Thai monarchy. They can't block all the sites. That says something about the effectivness of the law. But the remainder of the quote is even more interesting. Thai officials are now on a mission to "educate [foreignors] about lese majeste laws." Yeah, that will work. It will make first amendment and free speech advocates who never heard of or cared much about Thailand (well, maybe after the last few incidents they do know much more about Thailand now) stand up and take notice. I am not patronizing anyone when I say this is going to blow up in their face. And it is also really funny: imagine the reaction of any first amendment and free speech advocate who actually attends one of these education sessions. (Thailand needs an Al Franken for this.) It really makes you wonder. The only people outside of Thailand who are going to post the type of articles these people that these people are trying to prevent are people who already have strong views on the issue and they aren't going to be dissauded by any "education" push. If anything, they will use it to prove their point - and maybe other points that don't necessarily follow from this folly. So, I have to ask: what are they thinking? It's a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well we are discussing it aren't we? Credit should go to KS....he's the one who's really sticking his neck out. As for the extent to which Harry broke the law. Obviously I'm not going to post a link to his book but it's not too hard to find. You'll have to do your own research. It was definitely defamatory and therefore against the law. The sentence was reduced from 6 years to 3 because he pleaded guilty. Now I guess they want to see how truly sorry he is before he gets a pardon. Yes the recent Economist gets another kick in but it's much more polite than their previous effort. And Jonathon Head is very quiet. Olive branch accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi, "Credit should go to KS....he's the one who's really sticking his neck out." Not really I think. You are discussing the lese majeste law, not HM. Anyway, this discussion has pretty much run its course I think, so maybe time to just let it die? Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I agree. I was careful all the way through not to mention HM. I enjoy discussing it and I think we should be able to. I just don't want anything to happen to this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 "Anyway, this discussion has pretty much run its course I think, so maybe time to just let it die?" Agree and agree about the constrained nature of the discussion. In any event, I expect the issue will come up again. I have lived here for 14 years, and I can only recall two times when distribution of The Economist was barred, and both times occurred in the last several months. I think it's a harbinger of things to come and I don't see this issue fading away, but it will be easy enough to see if I am right or wrong in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiHome Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Wasnâ??t an issue banned (or withdrawn) back in Thaksinâ??s days (March 2002, I think), not for attacking the King but Thaksinâ??s policies? Seem to remember a couple of reportersâ?? visaâ??s being revoked or something? TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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