robaus Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Crikey, this is just like a US town hall meeting - good to see such healthy and lively debate. CS, some interesting lateral thinking re the China factor. You see the broader picture. You should get yourself into politics,mate! FlasherM, My knowledge of US healthcare is limited to my viewing of Michael Moore's "Sicko".... I couldn't understand why poor Americans wouldn't want universal heath cover. Fox Noise uses buzz words such as Socialism and Marxism to describe what is basically Christian ethic, caring for weaker members of society (that's rich I know coming from me, an atheist ... hehe). You have universal education to make sure everyone has a chance to learn. Why not universal healthcare to make sure everyone has a chance to stay alive? Stands out like dogs balls to me. re overseas health cover. For instance Australia has reciprocal arrangements with other countries such as NZ, UK, Canada?, EU countries? for free cover for each others visiting citizens. Like trade and tariff agreements I suppose these things take time to negotiate. Elsewhere such as for Thailand I take out travel insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Universal education in the US is only free through secondary. Costs an arm and a leg for a tertiary education these days. I'd love to have a proper health care programme in the US. The problem is that most of the proposals are not that, not even those being proposed by Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Universal education in the US is only free through secondary. Costs an arm and a leg for a tertiary education these days. I'd love to have a proper health care programme in the US. The problem is that most of the proposals are not that, not even those being proposed by Obama. Why not accept the health care plan GWB provided for the Iraqis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Fine ... as long as I don't have to move to Iraq! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Better yet, we pay for their healthcare so it is only right they pay for our healthcare! See, I just united both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Universal education in the US is only free through secondary. Costs an arm and a leg for a tertiary education these days. I'd love to have a proper health care programme in the US. The problem is that most of the proposals are not that, not even those being proposed by Obama. Still, at one time in this country education was not compulsory and was not free. Education was not seen as a fundamental right, was not mandated in the constitution but is now believed to be a right by all americans through secondary school. I don't see a difference between that and health care frankly. The education budget at both the state and federal level are wrought with waste and education in some areas (especially poor areas) is to some degree ineffective. Don't get me wrong. I think any kind of nationalized health care will have waste and wrought with issues on all levels. It will be no different than any other government program. Thing is I don't see much of a choice right now. Many of those who are against it will need it and I would guess a signficant number already do need it. The way I see it either the current way te deliver health care is good enough or it isn't. I don't think there is anyone in both parties that says its okay as it is. This was McCain's plan. http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba629 That was the plan the party proposed. Why aren't Republicans trying to put it into effect? McCains plan basically provides a tax relief measure for all people. $2,500 for individuals, $5,000 for families. Its debatable whether or not it would work but the proposal in of itself suggests that the current means of providing health care is ineffective. I don't want health care to be elevated as a right. There is a provision in the constitution to add rights. I hate it when we hear something is a right but its not done the way its provided for in the constitution. During the health care debate the canadian and english means to provide health care was depicted as worse than what we presently have. I'd like to know the opinions of any Brit or Cannuck that has moved to America and have experienced both systems. To be fair to Obama's plan he's not proposing an equivalent program of either country. Finally, the problem, which we've touched on other threads, with health care in the U.S. are the players in it. The doctors (AMA), HMO chains and the drug companies and congress who are owned by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 During the 1860's, the mayor of Tucson, Arizona got the city to pay for free public education up to 12th grade. The mayor was white but almost everybody living in Tucson at that time were Mexicans - the city paid to educate the Mexicans! Most of the western towns and cities of the old West paid for education in one fashion or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I was talking to a gentleman yesterday and we were discussing is some healthcare a right. I said "Yes" and he said "No!" We discussed and when we were done, he believed like I do - some healthcares are a right. If a person pays into the system for 40 plus years for healthcare when they get older (medicare) they should expect to get something for their money. It is like somebody paying the premium for healthcare for one month - that person has a right for health care for one month. In this case, it is not a privelege but a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I’m out of my depth here. I know fuckall about US healthcare apart from Michael Moore’s doco. My OP aroused my interest because it helped me understand the US’s blind love affair with a certain country, which we have debated elsewhere…. so didn’t want to open that can of worms… for now at least! The bottom line for me is - there are basic obligations for a citizen of any country such as: obey the law, pay taxes, protect the country that protects you, and leave it a better place than when you arrived (via umbilical cord or immigration control). In return I would have thought it would be relatively simple to figure out a way for the state to help a citizen when he is sick and needs good care but can’t afford to pay a physician. The Lady of Liberty must be turning in her foundry mould: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!†…. Now fuck off and fend for yourselves! Excuse my irreverence. Seriously, there’s a chance here for the US to legislate with the experience of other countries’ mistakes to cut out the faults from all the healthcare abusers: providers and patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 There is no farkin way that the US politicians will do anything but support the Big Pharma, AMA and all the farkin lawyers in the country! There will NEVER be a good healthcare system in the USA for the common US citizen!! Forget it. Put your last dollar on that bet!!! IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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