iuytrede Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 "He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious." This is the arrogance of Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake!" Some of you may know what happened to her. "virtually every village family has a refrigerator" Not in my experience. "All main roads in Thailand are paved (close to First-World standards" Maybe you should better say "close to American standards". That is not the same. Or even better, you should say "all major American roads are paved (close to Thai standards)" "The "landless peasant" class exists, but is very small" About 40% of the population. "squatters on state land in the cities ... live ... rent-free" No, they pay rent. Maybe you have never lived in a slum so you don't know? "Girls on average get 14 years of schooling and boys 13 years " "high rate of upward social mobility " Keep on dreaming (or lying). "Thailand routinely exports more than it imports. It is also attractive for foreign investment. It therefore has enormous foreign reserves, and even though it has few natural resources to sell abroad, its reserves, at $138 billion, are the 10th highest in the world. (Britain has $56 billion, Australia $45 billion). This means plenty of capital for employment-creating new manufacturing jobs, which entice rural folk seeking work in cities. The Thai currency is so strong that even recent political troubles have not budged it." You should study economics. Oh, BTW, it is rising expectations that cause revolutions (Toqueville). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardKing Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Nice strawmen there. Any facts to back up *your* statements? Seems to me his economics are quite correct, if you simply look at the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Oh, BTW, it is rising expectations that cause revolutions (Toqueville). Really? So it's just that simple. Damn, I feel so stupid for thinking it was more linked to both a communal and individual hierarchy of values along with violent and dynamic political/cultural shifts. I just can't figure out why there hasn't been a revolution in America every generation since the depression in an almost perfect linear graduation (with a few coughs and sputters), according to your revelation. Also curious about your first hand insight to America's paved roads??? Odd place to display your disdain for America dude, you need to be a little more creative. Try it again, there's a lot of people that will back you up, don't worry. Let it really rip. Might feel good. Oh yeah, and that great lifestyle you see on TV. That's about the only place it exists... on TV. In reality the US is way ahead of Thailand in wonderful things like its suicide rate. A higher percentage of people here pull the trigger on themselves than in Thailand. Why do you think that is? Maybe you want to say the Thais are just too stupid to realize how fucked they are??? Maybe you should take your missionary zeal on the road to enlighten them. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 He's obviously never seen some of the roads in Appalachia. I only have to drive about 20 miles from home to find myself on gravel roads in the neighbouring county. Oh, yeah ... my home is the only "wet" county for a long ways around! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia p.s. From a 1985 research paper: << Overall, 14% of farm households in the Central Plain area were landless in 1974-75; however, the range extended from 4% in Kanchanaburi to 38% in Ayuthaya province. >> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12267503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 land holdings of less than 5 rai in 1998: 38,9%, increasing http://www.unescap.org/stat/meet/povstat/pov7_thi.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 i have driven on Americas paved roads all around the country i have also driven on paved roads in other rich countries have you? i did notice a certain difference BTW i have also driven on paved roads in Thailand, Taiwan, Mexico - but i would rather compare America to other rich countries because i do not feel disdain for America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave32 Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 OK. Sometimes grow weary of the US being singled out and if it seems cliched or without substance, I tend to poke a little to see where it's coming from. Hell, I'm getting sympathetic to the people tired of hearing about America. Haha. I think I am too. Have driven throughout the states, Canada, parts of Europe (Germany, Italy, Belgium). And yes -- our infrastructure needs work at home. And enough about the US. Ultimately we judge things against what we know, and by Western standards I'm sure Thailand is lacking in many ways, I think the point of the author was -- in some ways -- to say that it's important to identify that measuring stick as subjective. And when measuring the Thais against their neighbors in the region or their past -- they're not in a terrible place. I don't know. Ps. Disregard my bark, I still have to remind myself to go easy on the forum with people I'm not familiar with. Sometimes you want to press a little to fish out where someone stands. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 refrigerators: my experience, i dont have statistics about fridges in village households. Tomorrow I will go count them, won't take me too long . rent in slums: go live in a slum, you will see that you must pay rent average 14 years of schooling: do you really think i need a quotation to back up that this is nonsense? Have you ever been to Thailand? upward mobility it is a judgement of the author (as opposed to a fact) that there is a lot of upward mobility in Thailand. I live here and I think it is very wrong, it shows the writer's arrogance and disdain towards the people in Thailand who suffer from the lack of upward mobility. A different perspective: http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/the-thai-red-curry/395747/ refrigerators: my experience, i dont have statistics about fridges in village households. Tomorrow I will go count them, won't take me too long . rent in slums: go live in a slum, you will see that you must pay rent about economics: the facts may be correct, the interpretation is odd: "Thailand routinely exports more than it imports. It is also attractive for foreign investment. It therefore has enormous foreign reserves, and even though it has few natural resources to sell abroad, its reserves, at $138 billion, are the 10th highest in the world. (Britain has $56 billion, Australia $45 billion). This means plenty of capital for employment-creating new manufacturing jobs, which entice rural folk seeking work in cities. The Thai currency is so strong that even recent political troubles have not budged it." the word "routinely" is wrong if your memory reaches beyond 1997 - depends on the time frame that you are looking at "attractive for foreign investment" not a fact, but a judgement (FDI inflows often support this judgement, but sometimes do not) "enormous" foreign reserves - not a fact, but a judgement - i would not call them enormous, they are adequate (Australia's are much higher on a per capita basis) "This means ..." another interpretation, not a fact. An interpretation that many students of economics would not agree with. about the arrogance of Marie Antoinette (mirrored in the arrogance of many rich Bangkokians as well many rich farang) and about Toqueville (rising expectations of the underclass): this is not about facts but about attitudes BTW Toqueville's view means that OP is basically right - but some people didn't get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchapstick Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 This struck me as a classic case of "using statistics to prove your thesis", peppered with a heavy dose of innuendo and assumptions. To wit, the authors uses discrepancy between the upper and lower 10%, but never uses absolute numbers, nor dues he define the shape of the curve. A few macro economic statistics about the state of the Thai economy in total, but those statistics have nothing to do with the state of the poorest Thais. The the author peppers his argument with lots of unsubstantiated claims about upward mobility, pick-up truck ownership, etc. Sorry, I am not buying it. The fact is that Thailand is a low wage country Factory workers can make ~4000 baht per month, working 28 out of 30 days a month. Uni grads make about 10k per month. To claim that this is on par with the US is absurd. Are their other, more desperate poor people in other countries? Sure there are. Does not mean that Thai workers are paid fairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 Roads in California, the bay area anyway, suck gangrene dog toes. That said, the original post and some subsequent posts paint too rosie a picture...almost makes me wish I was Thai rural poor so I could have land and have to work my ass of 20 hours a day to grow food and tend to my animals...for what? nothing a month in salary, while full well knowing a lot of people are better off who work far less? The original post is off in my book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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