panadolsandwich Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Mr. Central Scrutinizer , Please bear in mind these individuals rarely manage to keep going without the help of brother whisky or related liquids . Nuff said . BuBi Well said. It's the mental health issue that isn't addressed and whether drugs or alcohol cause the problem or excacerbate it - who knows? CS's post is interesting because I've seen a multitude of posts, much like his, where he's asking people to empathise with him, rather than ever consider what empathy truly is. Let's call it reverse narcissitic empathy. That is if the guy sleeping rough was him he'd pick himself up - dust himself off, get a shower, and set a whole series of actions in motion, like contacting embassy, arrange paperwork etc. All very well you might say - except the guy sleeping rough, *by very fucking definition* is incapable of all that. I mean how **** stupid would you have to be to assume otherwise. These people do need help, proper professional mental care in their own country - but anybody who has ever tried to help them has been burnt, so they stay on the streets. Not just Thailand, in Australia, England, USA - you name the country. Often they just need to start taking medication again. CS, your attitude is fairly typical. I'd encourage you to think again though, and maybe next time when you see someone like that you can use your so called "scrutiny" to be a bit more compassionate and have some kind words, and who knows? Maybe even some true empathy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pai mei Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well said. It's the mental health issue that isn't addressed and whether drugs or alcohol cause the problem or excacerbate it - who knows? CS's post is interesting because I've seen a multitude of posts, much like his, where he's asking people to empathise with him, rather than ever consider what empathy truly is. Let's call it reverse narcissitic empathy. That's a bit of a harsh interpretation. Sure, there are folks who are crippled with some sort of medical or mental health problem and simply cannot function without help. But there are others, who play off of people's empathy and exploit it. It's simply OK to them. And then there's grey area where these things overlap. I think CS was simply saying: that's not cool. Have a little pride, you don't have to exist like that, there are better ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 That's a bit of a harsh interpretation. Sure, there are folks who are crippled with some sort of medical or mental health problem and simply cannot function without help. But there are others, who play off of people's empathy and exploit it. It's simply OK to them. And then there's grey area where these things overlap. I think CS was simply saying: that's not cool. Have a little pride, you don't have to exist like that, there are better ways. pai mei, I think you will find PDS is a 'glass half empty' kinda guy, not a wide-eyed idealist like the rest of us ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panadolsandwich Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 That's a bit of a harsh interpretation. Sure, there are folks who are crippled with some sort of medical or mental health problem and simply cannot function without help. But there are others, who play off of people's empathy and exploit it. It's simply OK to them. And then there's grey area where these things overlap. I think CS was simply saying: that's not cool. Have a little pride, you don't have to exist like that, there are better ways. Yeah I agree, my mistake and apologies to CS. Re-reading it - that was harsh. That's the problem with this kind of medium - if I'd got a straight reply in a moment I would have apologised. Now I re-read it he was obviously talking about guys that are in what you call that 'gray area'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Yeah I agree, my mistake and apologies to CS. Re-reading it - that was harsh. That's the problem with this kind of medium - if I'd got a straight reply in a moment I would have apologised. Now I re-read it he was obviously talking about guys that are in what you call that 'gray area'. PS, Apology accepted. The guys I was using as examples are physically healthy, not old and frail, and are mentally healthy... by most standards at least. They are NOT alcoholics or drug addicts, not physically crippled, handicapped or unintelligent and unable to work most jobs. Both I cite would love to find a job in Thailand so they could stay in Thailand, but they cannot as they are not qualified to do anything here that the Thai government would let them do legally. They can't even work as English teachers 'legally' as they have no college degree or TEFL (though both have done so illegally). What they are is addicted to Thailand, for whatever reasons, and refuse to face reality and leave, go home, and start over. They have used friends and family for loans they definitely knew they could not ever likely to be able to pay back in their present situation. I've seen others like this as well, met them, heard their stories, and subsequently was asked to lend them money, which I refuse to do, usually. I helped one as much as I could (food, a place to stay for free for a few days, job opportunities to get him by that I knew of or heard about, a place to have a hot shower and shave, even clothes cleaned at the laundry for him to be presentable for job interviews). The other guy moved on fairly quickly and I had little contact except a few hours chatting with him over a couple of days and hearing his sad story, which he freely told. He got a couple of free beers, and a sandwich, and one friend of mine hired him to do some yard-work to get enough money for him to eat for a few days or so and a bus/train ticket onward to where ever he was onward to. I've met a few over the years here just like them, of various ages. They are seemingly decent intelligent guys who have fucked up in one way or another while over here. They almost to a man blame a Thai woman for their circumstances. Maybe to some extent they are right in placing the blame on the woman that 'screwed them over', but I feel a lot of the blame should fall on their shoulders for their own silliness and dumb behavior, and their lack of common sense. It's the old maxim of them having 'left their brains at the airport on arrival to the LOS'. They are destitute, broke, skint. They refuse to leave and to accept that they have little other options, for some strange inexplicable, to me at least, reason. They become parasites using their charisma (and both I've used as examples earlier were very charismatic, friendly guys, easy to get along with, well spoken and seemingly intelligent) to gain sympathy and get money from friends, family, and even complete strangers they meet in their travels. They are deluded in thinking they can extend their stay here in Thailand indefinitely. They have no future prospects to have a decent time living here without money or a job of some sort. They will one day come to a bad end, resort to theft and get caught and imprisoned, or will end up in immi prison waiting to be deported when caught with an invalid passport and visa. They are fucked, but just seem to not be able to admit it, try to remedy it and get on with their life and try to get back here to live someday in the future with some money in their pocket and a prospect of a decent life here. As I said, I don't understand their thinking and mindset. I can empathize, to a point (all that 'there but for the grace of god go I' stuff). But these are grown men with the ability to think for themselves and care for themselves, seemingly at least. I've helped where/when I can/could... within reason: gave some money, food, and even once gave a place for the guy to stay for a few days rather than see him sleep on the streets/train depot. Other guys here have done the same for these guys we've met occasionally passing through our town. Most I've met weren't con-men or thieves like the guy Angus (or Anus as we call him) I spoke of previously in the thread. But all were looking for sympathy and a hand out from softer hearts (some at least were willing to work for their food and money). And ALL were quite capable of taking the cheap 3rd class train to Bangkok and present their plight to their embassy representatives to return home to work and receive whatever social security their government, religious institutions, and family and friends are willing and able to provide them to start over with some dignity and pride in themselves. It sucks to fail or screw up, but you can rebound with some hard work, some help where available, a plan and a willingness to get back in the saddle and work towards a goal, and have some pride in yourself. Plenty have done so when needed, and it is not impossible to turn it all around in a few years time and come back stronger, and smarter, than before to live a decent and sanuk life in the LOS if you want to. JMHO Panadol. The Central Scrutinizer P.S. These are not people suffering from serious depression, bipolar disorder, or other serious mental illnesses that I could detect. I'm no expert, but I've known people with mental illnesses, and myself suffered from Major Depression for a few years and needed medication (Nardil, an MAO inhibitor) to overcome it. So I am not completely clueless to the signs of illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I am not that hard to figure out. Next time in Surin I will tell you my story over a meal or two. Okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I am not that hard to figure out. Next time in Surin I will tell you my story over a meal or two. Okay? BT, I'd rather you explain yourself here for discussion sake. And I would think others here have run into the sort I describe, or farang internet predators looking to find gullible Thais, and have something to tell or add here of their own experiences. Hell, I know a few guys that go on the internet for hours chatting to Thai and Filipino women trying to get them to show them their tits and bits. These guys live in Thailand for chrissakes! The easiest place in the world to get laid for a few dollars. WTF? Seems more than a bit juvenile and pervy to me and a waste of time. Maybe they just have too much time on their hands, or not enough money or charm to go out and find women to have sex with? Dunno, but it seems a huge waste of time and energy to me. Likely they need a hobby, or a job. :-) And the farang guy depicted in the picture of the OP looks familiar! lol The Central Scrutinizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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