Stickman Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Perhaps they do have compassion but ong ago realised that one cannot change things in Thailand. This is something my girlfriend said to me just a couple of weeks ago when I was venting my frustration about a certain aspect of my teaching and some Thai students would make so little effort - and how what I was trying to do would be beneficial to their English. She said to me "don't try and change things in Thailand because they have been like this for a long time, and Thai people arestubborn and simply refuse to change"! I think she is right... Yep, even when things are done to HELP them or improve things, they often are reluctant to change... Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 That would be fine if they could accept it with the serenity of you know who but its the underlying bitterness that gets to me. Secondly nothing and no one can stand in the way of change. Take the bar girls. They are made to order. This is their society in a state of flux. These sisters are hitching up their skirts and making the change the only way they can. One party I hope not be around for an invitation to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 17, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Yep, even when things are done to HELP them or improve things, they often are reluctant to change... --------------------------- or for the worse. Actually, i wonder if you have any opinion if thais ever give a thought about all the changes their country has been going thru in the last 20 years. I really mean: a thought, not an accounting of all the goodies in their home and garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Read it again, Pattaya127. "unrepentant capitalist and libertarian that I am..". So, obviously I don't think of either group as exploited - to me, it's their choice. But, another member of the board, GoodThaiGirl, sprinkled her early posts with accusations that farangs "exploit" girls (and other things?) in Thailand because they're cheap labour. She used the word a lot. Having a logical kind of brain, I noticed the apparent contradiction in her thinking and pointed it out. I enjoy employing that sort of robust, logical knot in a civil argument and hope to see her try to get herself out of it. It's hardly throwing the book at her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 17, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 So, obviously I don't think of either group as exploited - to me, it's their choice. --------------------------------- I think this is the point, you are putting your slant on both situations, and GTG has her own, which may spell contradiction TO YOU, but not to her. Actually, can you point where GTG did say textually :"farangs exploit girls"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 "which may spell contradiction TO YOU, but not to her" Well, duh. Different people have different viewpoints. I'm exposing her to my (and many other westerners') viewpoint. If she can't see the contradiction, I'll try to explain it again. That's the point of having the discussion. Are you going to let her answer it or what? Actually, can you point where GTG did say textually :"farangs exploit girls"? This proved easier than I thought. For example, check out very long URL From that thread (Sad Scene): >What are your feelings about farangs coming to Thailand and frequenting the bars and massage parlors, Exploitation of the situation. I can see the economic side of the reason. Everything is so cheap here. For the same amount of money you can f**k 10 times as much as you?re back home or more ? And help the Thai economy at the same time ? How nice ! You?re so generous. 5555 Why don?t you help your own economy or help homeless and underprivileged people in your home country? They really need your help ? no kidding. Can it be any clearer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Mr Stickman, I don't quite understand your reasoning here. How would someone lose face by being called Khun??? I imagine if one was to possibly lose face in front of their peers it may be because one's maid addresses you as Pee. To me it's just a term of endearment, and I'm sure that's how it's intended. I think that too much is read into these 'honourifics' as you call them. In practice people relate together however they see fit. There are a whole range of titles to use in Thai: ones for hate, ones for love, ones for superiority. etc. etc....it's up to which one you decide to use based on your relationship with that particular person..'firmly establish rank' ? C'mon, chill dude. You make it sound like the military or something. Obviously we don't know what the relationship is between GTG and her maid, and it would be far too presumptious for us to guess. -incidently did you feel any offence by me calling you 'Mr. Stickman'?? Or would you rather me call you Tahn Stickman? Cheers, FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 I know an ex-bg who runs an Internet cafe in Ramkhamhang. She sent her earnings home and studied both English and computers fervently for 3 years, found some partners and started a business. It's not impossible but with her low level education and without her bar work who knows whether this would have been possible. I'm sure she's in the 2% bracket of 'doers' in this scene though. I think alot of this has to do with the fact that she came on to the scene late after a failed marriage ...therefore being mature enough to take control of the situation and not get involved in drugs and alchol etc.. Where there's a will there's a way? I don't think everyone has the will though, or the will power for that matter. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodthaigirl Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 TEDBKK, >I've read many of GTG's posts and I find offense because I have yet to see one ounce of compassion or empathy from her for the lot in life that Thai society -- her society -- hands to people of low socioeconomic status. You might have read a lot of my post but you don't GET IT. I said many times that I don't like( this word is better than 'detest' - right?) SOME of the bgs. OK? >Instead of crowing on about how wonderful it is that her maids can call her "older sister" and how her mom lets her maid out of the house for a cooking class, let's see her and others like her talk about why women turn to whoring in the first place. Hint: I'll bet it has something to do with a thoroughly corrupt society stacked against them. Yes, it is one of the factors- one of the important ones. And you think I didn't know that. GODD LORD ! GTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodthaigirl Posted July 18, 2002 Report Share Posted July 18, 2002 bibblies, Exploitation of the situation. I can see the economic side of the reason. Everything is so cheap here. For the same amount of money you can f**k 10 times as much as you're back home or more ? And help the Thai economy at the same time ? How nice ! You're so generous. 5555 Why don't you help your own economy or help homeless and underprivileged people in your home country? They really need your help ? no kidding. I don't think I exploit my maids just because we level out in a sense ie., living in the same country under the same economic situation. We pay according to what we can afford. Do you know what I mean? But farangs who come here generally are FAR BETTER OFF than your service providers ie. bargirls. As I said, everything is so BLOODY CHEAP. That's my interpretation of the word 'exploitation' any ways. GTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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