Stickman Posted August 13, 2002 Report Share Posted August 13, 2002 Actually, I disagree with the point about Asians (or at least Thais, for that is where my excperience lies) being loyal to their loved one. I have seen so many instances which show a lack of loyalty... I feel they have loyalty to their family, and their children, but not always to the one they are married to. Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 >As a matter of princple I do not associate with people who prefer to use violence more often than logic, < unfortunately in some environments violence is the logic thing. Indeed. And if you admire those environments and think those people are cool, that's your prerogative. >The ones who beat the shit out of their girlfriends when they don't bring enough money to support their habits.< more often than not the habit is shared by the girl. My point was I don't care to hang out with guys who beat their girlfriends. Even if the said GFs are junkies. Even though violence happens in best families. Even if beating a GF happens to be the logic thing. But that's me... well let me ask you, why do you guys like to fall in love, marry. etc with those girls? I hang out with those girls because I have a lot of fun with them. When I think of beerbottles and knives in their hands (or yaa-baa and or other substances that might be in their purses) I cringe and hope I don't have to deal with any of that. And thx for the last paragraph with the explanation. Though I must say, I've had opportunities to associate with all kinds of people. The ones you describe may strike you at first as refreshingly honest but, in my experience, that too is an illusion. They are just as dishonest with themselves as anyone else. And typically their lack of intellectual substance makes it hard to have a conversation with any real substance. Yeah, I too can bullshit about the women I fucked last night, about Mekong I drank last night, about the faces I smashed last night, the cops I ran away from. After a while it gets old. But that's me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 >Indeed. And if you admire those environments and think those people are cool, that's your prerogative.< i don't admire those environments, i take them as they are. they are places i can learn a lot about life. >I hang out with those girls because I have a lot of fun with them. When I think of beerbottles and knives in their hands (or yaa-baa and or other substances that might be in their purses) I cringe and hope I don't have to deal with any of that. < well, the problem there is, that if you play in this scene here in thailand you are dealing with the things like yaa maa and knifes in their purses. the vast majority of bargirls i know are into those kind of things. you might prefer to be blind about that to keep up the illusion of happiness, but unfortunately that is a reality in this country, in this scene. >Though I must say, I've had opportunities to associate with all kinds of people. The ones you describe may strike you at first as refreshingly honest but, in my experience, that too is an illusion. They are just as dishonest with themselves as anyone else. And typically their lack of intellectual substance makes it hard to have a conversation with any real substance. Yeah, I too can bullshit about the women I fucked last night, about Mekong I drank last night, about the faces I smashed last night, the cops I ran away from. After a while it gets old. But that's me...< how would you know? in another thread you stated that you prefer to have as little contact as possible with the male part of the thai population. the people we talk about here might lack "intellectual substance", but the topics of conversation do not lack depth (which conversations with too much "intellectualism" rather often do...). don't confuse lack of education with stupidity. humanity is very complex, and never fails to surprise me... >I hang out with those girls because I have a lot of fun with them.< a question: do those girls then have the intellectual substance you see lacking in the men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 "well, the problem there is, that if you play in this scene here in thailand you are dealing with the things like yaa maa and knifes in their purses. the vast majority of bargirls i know are into those kind of things. you might prefer to be blind about that to keep up the illusion of happiness, but unfortunately that is a reality in this country, in this scene." Has it gotten this tough in the sex scene in Thailand? It could be a sign that Thailand is becoming a developed country. It sounds like prostitution in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 since i have known the scene, about 12 or 13 years now, there were cutters in the girl's purses. drugs were always used, the yaa maa explosion though started really hitting in during the beginning of the crises. it is not only in the scene but all over the place, the wole country is affected. not a developed country, but a country with an ever increasing gap between rich and poor. not only the scene is getting tougher, but the whole country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 do those girls then have the intellectual substance you see lacking in the men? Are you kidding me? No, I most definitely do not hang out with the BGs to discuss the implications of European currency on Thai domestic economic policy, or the influence of Pali language on Thai script. Yes, I'm aware some of the darker aspects of Thai nightlife, it's just that I don't try to glorify it. how would you know? fly, you don't have to live in the country for umpteen years and speak the language fluently in order to understand a few basic things. A violent low-life is just that--whether he's white trash in a trailer park or a British football hooligan or a Thai scumbag. I'm sure there are people out there who idealize the neo-Nazis and skinheads in Germany, who hang out with them, who have learnt so much about life from them; who stress how they have feelings too and how they are just victims of bad circumstance... (Btw, I'm not navigating this thread into European politics, just trying to draw a parallel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Many BGs have Thai BFs (90% is the figure I've been given) I would agree with Fly that they are not all lazy good-for-nothings. I know one who is a hairdresser. He doesn't realize that his GF is on the game and they have terrible rows when he discovers that she has slept with a farang. She's not very attractive and doesn't earn much so he's not in it for the money either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Is Thailand really that bad off Fly? Because what I see there is far better than other poor countries I have been to. I see Bangkok's awful traffic because it is too many cars. I see college girls running around with cell phones. I don't see people dying of hunger. I see them eating at food stalls instead of saving money on preparing the food themselves. Wages of 5000 Baht for unskilled labour? Sure beats wages in VietNam, Cuba etc. I have a good friend in Havana, Cuba. He earns US$10 every month as a IT professional at a university there. Not even the dean there has a cell phone, and surely not the students. Actually I think Thailand has improved a lot since I first came there in the start of the eighties. Although the economy had a sharp setback with the crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 it is very difficult to say. you have here a lot of poverty, hidden from sight. TB for example is still a very big problem down in the slums. i know several families who are infected. upcountry you have many families who live from 20 000 baht a year and less. but i don't measure poverty not only on material wealth. there is the cultural aspect too. the drug problem here for example is incredible, completely out of control. i like to cite always the village of my missus. the situation is dire there. i don't know a man below 40 who is not into amphetamines, many women too. most privately owned land has been reposessed by the banks, jobs are rare. many of the former harvest jobs are not available anymore too as much of it is automated now. the crises changed a lot in this country here. the villages are now full of unemployed desilllusioned young men. people who have lived during the pseudo boom under the illusion that the can be one day part of the modern world. that illusion has been taken away from them. it is very different here from places like cambodia. what you can see here is more like the globalisation-induced two class society. the gap between rich and poor in thailand is rapidly increasing, as far as i know, together with china, the largest in the region. from what i have seen, the monetary wealth has been rising tremendously in thailand in the lst 20 or thirty years, but i do wonder if the actual wealth has been rising too. lets say, in a village before money was very hard to come by, but many things you have to buy now were once free. housing material for example. before you walked into the community forest and cut a few trees to build a new house. now you have to buy the wood as cutting trees is illegal, and anyhow, not much forest left, due to illegal commercial deforestation. same with food. agricultural land once was very cheap before the choonhavan administration, but for reasons of speculation the prices have been artificially risen, so that now a normal villager cannot afford to buy land anymore. average price for land is now 30 000 to 40 000 baht a rai in most areas. if one has been reduced to a landless farmer he will never be able to buy new land. you need at least 5 to 10 rai to be able to live of a farm. a very complicated issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 >Yes, I'm aware some of the darker aspects of Thai nightlife, it's just that I don't try to glorify it. < neither do i. >fly, you don't have to live in the country for umpteen years and speak the language fluently in order to understand a few basic things.< well, i do prefer to understand more than a few basic things. >A violent low-life is just that--whether he's white trash in a trailer park or a British football hooligan or a Thai scumbag. < i think you generalise here a bit. humanity is more complex than that. shades of grey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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