Anti-foreigner sentiment runs high

[shygye]

p127,

 

 

 

Could you provide more details on the spitting incident? Was it a Berkley Prof., cop, student, panhandler, mentally ill person, etc. For those not familiar with Berkley, it is probably the MOST liberal town in the whole US. A college town of tree huggers, antiwar protesters, antiglobalization, anti corporation, etc.

[Guest]

I am not going to post multiple messages ala pattaya 127 and flyonzthewall and others; I will limit this to a single and selected response.

 

 

 

First, from Falang:

In reply to:

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We hear all the time that the politics are corrupt in Thailand and that the corruption is a way of life in Thailand but I don't think it's very fair to make it look has if they were no corruption in the western countries, the corruption maybe felt more at the citizen level in developing countries but it's very common at very high political level in western rich countries.

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Simply saying that there is corruption in the West misses the point. Corruption is substantially greater in Thailand than in most western countries. You don?t only have to rely on the opinions of ex-pats who have lived here for years, you can also look at Thailand?s rating on the Transparency International website.

 

 

 

Ex-pats complain because corruption is qualitatively worse here and it intrudes into your daily life if you conduct business here. If you don?t conduct business here, you well get a taste even when you do something as simple as drive.

 

 

 

Next Pattaya127:

In reply to:

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So what? What we need at this point is a general bahaviour in all provinces, all walks of life, to corroborate your premises. And concrete laws that spoliate ALL foreigners from their rights and properties

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I am not sure what premises you are referring to. The people mentioned in my examples can and do influence public opinion and public policy, and this is what makes their opinions ? openly expressed in Thai ? so alarming.

 

 

 

I am also not sure what you mean by ?spoliate ALL foreigners from their rights and properties?, but there are plenty of discriminatory laws in Thailand. There is an alien business law that prevents foreigners from legally engaging in a variety of businesses. Foreigners cannot own land. Farangs are charged higher rates to enter national parks, even when they are permanent residents and even Thai citizens. Where I come from, there is no alien business law and no restrictions on foreigners owning land, and if a foreigner was charged a higher rate because of the color of his or her skin it would be a scandal.

 

 

 

Even if a foreigner becomes a permanent resident, he must still independently obtain a work permit. There are Thai laws that restrict jobs to not only Thai nationals, but also people of ?Thai race.? I don?t think there is such a thing as Thai race, but I find it more than curious that Thai laws make such restrictions.

 

 

 

No one is saying that all Thais are anti foreigner. But if you actually live here, it is pretty hard to ignore the strong anti foreigner element in the present under-current of Thai nationalism.

 

 

[racha]

''but the 1st post was clearly about it being on the rise,

 

 

 

Yes and it is on a political level,on a village level or with the local population in general there is no problem If you think the present government is not making it more difficult here for foreigners at the moment then you are on the wrong track, How many people have been given permanent residency since the last government came to power that's one example, I have lived and worked here for nearly 2 decades now and never seen it so difficult to get things done with legal business matters especially in Phuket, the rules are constantly changing at the moment though my businesses in Bangkok are not seeing so much of a problem as in Phuket, with Phuket being one of the provinces for the CEO test cases the guys that are living and working there are seeing this more than others around the country at present,

 

 

 

I do agree this thread is going all over the place and some posters are taking the title the wrong way,

 

 

 

 

 

If you come here for a holiday you will see no difference in the locals attitudes, they are how they always were, though If you do business here you will find it tougher than ever before to get through the red tape, and it will get worse before it gets better, I am not complaining about all this , I just can see what is going on at the moment and if you live here its always has been that we are farang's and it never was made easy for us anyway, if you wanted to do things legally that is,

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

In reply to:

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and what is the program watched by most thais?

 

not news or propaganda, but soaps and quizz shows. not much anti farang propaganda there.

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I originally planned to post a single message in response to all of the messages above, but I had the misfortune to watch a half hour of ?Nong Mai? (?Freshie? or ?Freshmen?, depending upon your translation) just now on Channel 3. It is situation comedy involving first year university students.

 

 

 

Today?s episode concerned a trouble making elitist student who was creating problems for the rest of the students in her class. Her friends tried to help her mend her ways, but she just wouldn?t cooperate.

 

 

 

In class, the good students were providing all sorts of examples of ?kid mai, tum mai? (roughly, think new, act new), which as anyone who follows the local scene knows is the slogan of a certain political party. The trouble maker, refused to cooperate, and instead aped farang ideas. She was the one character receptive to western ideas, and she was made out to be a rather unattractive and silly character, while the ?new thinkers? were clearly on track.

 

 

 

Oh, and in case this was too subtle for the audience to understand, the examples of kid mai, tum mai provided by the good students included a 30 baht medical scheme, an one million baht to each village scheme, and a one tamboon / one product scheme. The one character who questioned the value of these new projects was portrayed as an unattractive, clueless troublemaker. She played the fool in this comedy.

 

 

 

No, there is not much propaganda in the shows watched by ordinary Thais.

 

 

[Guest]

You are right. I cannot compare Phuket to Bangkok, but I know it is more difficult now for foreign owned businesses in Bangkok as well, and I am in a business where we have to do everything legally, a bank which is majority foreign owned (I sometimes think we should change our company logo to a large red bull's eye.)

 

 

 

There is a great deal of back sliding on commitments that were made when the original investment was made here. We tried to get an IT person hired from Australia, but that was delayed because of concerns about "foreign criminals" in Thailand. (Yeah, multinational banks are a big source of foreign criminals operating in Thailand.)

 

 

 

That was the official reason, but I think the real concern was that we trying were actually bringing in a debt restructuring man in the guise of an IT specialist (we weren't). They really don't like Australian debt restructuring specialists, and once it was demonstrated this guy was actually a computer geek, we were able to get him in.

 

 

 

But what a hassle...I don't recall seeing this sort of nonsense when I first arrived and the 'change the rules' after the investment is made trick does not bode well for further investments. You know the famous old saying that President Bush recently mangled in front of a television audience of millions: "fool me once, shame on...shame on you...and...you are not going to fool me again..." Well, you get the idea.

[Guest]

and i had the misfortune to watch the other day chrissy singing some oily lovesongs on TV, thai ones and english ones. seems that she and jonas are still popular enough to get some TV space lots of thai singers would like to have.

 

 

 

according to the missus recently there was a soap called "bun lod" where a farang played the main role, being the good guy. she, being more knowledgable in that matter of soaps, says that right now there are more farangs than ever acting in soaps and movies here, playing good boys, and of course bad boys.

 

 

 

i think you should get out more and meet some normal people...

[Guest]

>Yes and it is on a political level,on a village level or with the local population in general there is no problem If you think the present government is not making it more difficult here for foreigners at the moment then you are on the wrong track, <

 

 

 

fortunately the general population here does not seem to listen or follow their polititians that much in that aspect. what it trickles down to IMO is not really a rise in anti farang sentiment, more an opportunity taken by corrupt and shortsighted business people cum politicians to grab more money and abuse their power under the pretense of "thais come first".

 

it's only some thais who seem to come first...

 

normal thais not part of that elite group have the same difficulties as we farang have now, complain about very similar things like increased red tape etc.

 

 

 

 

 

>How many people have been given permanent residency since the last government came to power that's one example<

 

 

 

that's a weird thing. i know some guy who got it during that time, but he went the way of the rather expensive lawyers. he said that the problem of that permanent residency not being granted is with the immigration. to get the last all important signiture you have to get through those "lawyers" who somehow make out of a process which should cost around 50 000 baht a thing that costs closer to half a million of which the person who gives that last signiture gets a considerable amount. he said it has more to do with increased corruption.

 

i might be wrong there though, so, don't quote me on that please.

[Guest]

I am certainly no expert on Thai TV soap operas and don't intend to compete with your missus, but I can report what I just saw and heard on the TV with my own eyes and ears (that show just finished a few minutes ago (probably while you were posting your response)). And I am not the only one who has observed the change. In an August 19, 2002 article in the Nation entitled "Reimagining the Thai Nation", Chang Noi made the following observation:

 

 

 

National beauty: The Thai/farang luk kreung stars who dominated the entertainment world are taking a back seat. In the TV dramas they now play the villains. To provide them with employment, we are treated to an avalanche of gangster stories in which the luk kreung stars' duty is to die en masse in the last episode after expending enough ammunition for a small war.

 

 

 

The new stars, both male and female, have delicate faces and frames that would go down just as well in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Shanghai. A few carry the surnames of great Sino-Thai dynasties as added authentication.

 

 

 

I guess I am not the only one who sees the changes. And I do get out quite often. You will notice, for example, that I don't post nearly as much as many other members here, meaning I have a life that goes beyond posting messages on this board

 

 

[pattaya127]

Could you provide more details on the spitting incident?

 

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I don't know who spitted at thim, but i remember the monk said he got snide remarks thrown at him more than once.

[Guest]

In reply to:

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a process which should cost around 50 000 baht a thing that costs closer to half a million of which the person who gives that last signiture gets a considerable amount.

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I am not an immigration specialist, but I have permanent residency status, and I know that the last signature in the process came from the Interior Minister ? not the current one, but I doubt that this aspect of the process has changed since I got my PR book.