Guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Waiting six months doesn't prove shit Maybe he changes his mind in 6 months? Or she finds a better paying long term customer? But of course, you are right. Waiting some time or sending money, etc doesn't proove anything. Which leads me to the 1'000'000 $ question: What prooves anything? Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 time aka the future will always prove everything - the trouble is predicting it though So the more time you've known her the better odds you should have at guessing if she's be a good 'investment' or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 CC, Just my thoughts. I'm cynical, and my approach isn't always the common approach. First, let her stay working. Why not? She's a bargirl. Do not support her. Only send money for reimbursement of her calls and email/translations, if even that. If you do, some guys do. If you don't, if she continues emailing/calling it's an even better sign. Remember too that calls are expensive whereas email could be the same sent to multiple guys, plus it's very cheap in LOS. Second, communicate with her and see how it goes. If it doesn't pick up to at least bi-daily calls, it's likely just her/you being interested, and you two aren't to the point of you getting married, getting her a visa, you moving over to LOS. Take lot's of time to see how it goes. Third, when you're back in LOS, go see her, but I would do this for a while before making any decisions. Optimally, I'd give it at least 8 months. I personally gave it 2-3 months long distance, stayed in LOS for 3-4 months. I think you can cut down the time to check each other out some, if you are local in LOS and can see her 24x7 for a few months. You start to see the real her really quickly, and she sees the real you fast. Fourth, check her story out and be prepared to find omissions and even lies. You will need to evaluate what is unacceptable and will be reason to cut it off. I personally can only accept a very short list of ommissions, and lies are rarely acceptable. Fifth, learn to accept she's a hooker and don't try to lie to yourself/others that she's not. Too many guys get caught up in this, and I have to ask if you have problems with hookers why are you dating/in love with one? Sure, it may not make sense to tell you parents or your Thai boss (if you were working in LOS), but there's not reason to pretend she isn't/wasn't one, or to get all morally superior when your friends point out she was/is one and the inherent risks. Sixth, forget about getting all hurt she's screwing around (for money). Don't you/didn't you screw around for sex itself too? If you can't handle her currently screwing around/done so in the past, being with a BG or ex-BG isn't for you. Note: Don't confuse accepting her past (or present when she's still working) with accept her lies. I personally don't get jealous much but I hate liars. They are not my friends or girlfriends for very long. Finally, be prepared to lose her to most guys who will move much quicker. You may repeat this process many times with many girls before the process plays out but then you have a better chance it's real. If you are smart, I would try to apply this process only to non-bargirls, but then in reality so many guys happen to fall for bargirls. Just know the risks and protest yourself. I also do not believe your chances are just the same with barigrls and non-bargirls. Think about it rationally. Trying a relationship with a hooker is obviously much more risky. The odds are clearly against you statistically. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 ABC wrote: ---------------------------------- "First, let her stay working. Why not? She's a bargirl. Do not support her. Only send money for reimbursement of her calls and email/translations, if even that. If you do, some guys do. If you don't, if she continues emailing/calling it's an even better sign. Remember too that calls are expensive whereas email could be the same sent to multiple guys, plus it's very cheap in LOS. Second, communicate with her and see how it goes. If it doesn't pick up to at least bi-daily calls, it's likely just her/you being interested, and you two aren't to the point of you getting married, getting her a visa, you moving over to LOS. Take lot's of time to see how it goes. Third, when you're back in LOS, go see her, but I would do this for a while before making any decisions. Optimally, I'd give it at least 8 months. I personally gave it 2-3 months long distance, stayed in LOS for 3-4 months. I think you can cut down the time to check each other out some, if you are local in LOS and can see her 24x7 for a few months. You start to see the real her really quickly, and she sees the real you fast. Fourth, check her story out and be prepared to find omissions and even lies. You will need to evaluate what is unacceptable and will be reason to cut it off. I personally can only accept a very short list of ommissions, and lies are rarely acceptable. Fifth, learn to accept she's a hooker and don't try to lie to yourself/others that she's not. Too many guys get caught up in this, and I have to ask if you have problems with hookers why are you dating/in love with one? Sure, it may not make sense to tell you parents or your Thai boss (if you were working in LOS), but there's not reason to pretend she isn't/wasn't one, or to get all morally superior when your friends point out she was/is one and the inherent risks. Sixth, forget about getting all hurt she's screwing around (for money). Don't you/didn't you screw around for sex itself too? If you can't handle her currently screwing around/done so in the past, being with a BG or ex-BG isn't for you. Note: Don't confuse accepting her past (or present when she's still working) with accept her lies. I personally don't get jealous much but I hate liars. They are not my friends or girlfriends for very long. Finally, be prepared to lose her to most guys who will move much quicker. You may repeat this process many times with many girls before the process plays out but then you have a better chance it's real. If you are smart, I would try to apply this process only to non-bargirls, but then in reality so many guys happen to fall for bargirls. Just know the risks and protest yourself. I also do not believe your chances are just the same with barigrls and non-bargirls. Think about it rationally. Trying a relationship with a hooker is obviously much more risky. The odds are clearly against you statistically". --------------------------------------- To sum it up, i think ABC meant: just take it easy! :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 ABCinBK, your post just remembered me my situation: I met a BG last christmas for one day ( :: hey wait to blame me for that till you finished to read the whole post). We joked a lot, so I gave her my e-mail address. When I was back, after one week she mailed me the first time. The usual nice words (you took my heart away ...). I asked her if her mail was serious and she answered that she was just kidding, that she doesn't feel any love for me. We continued to mail, she mailed every 2 days. After 4 months she tried to phone me the first time. It seems that she prefers to call, so she continues to call me every 2 days during the week, 2 times per day in the weekend. Of course I ask her sometimes if I should call back, or she asks me if I can call back. The mails continue also, but she writes less now. (She needs a translator) I told her early that I will come to thailand in the summer and that I will spend 4 weeks with her if she wants. (I will pay her of course even if she asked only for the barfine). At songkran she tried to persuade me to visit her, but I couldn't go. I have never sent money, she never asked for it and she is still working at the bar. (And going with customers, not sure how often) She doesn't like to speak about her customers, so I don't ask her. What is amazing is that we can laugh together although we can't communicate very well. So I will probably spend one month with her this summer and we will see if we fit together We didn't plan anything more than to take some time to know each other better. So I just try "your" approach. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 pattaya, If you mean to take it slowly and carefully, that's what I meant. I would never suggest to let my guard down with a BG in a relationship in the beginning. There are too many risks and situation would not warrant that. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCinBK Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 naiv, I really think you handled it best. By not bringing money into it after you went home, she isn't thinking about it or knows it's not in the cards at least for now. Of coarse, that's assuming she's possibly interested or see you as a "real" friend, vs. a long-term mark for money. Plus, who knows, maybe she does this hoping you will become a long term paying client vs. the short term paying client just before Christmas. In any event, it is a good way to get to know her while not getting over your head. I am just convinced it is best to let her keep working until you are sure you want to move to LOS or have her move to your country. Only then does it make sense to pay for a VERY SHORT TIME PERIOD. And while paying for her to get out of the BG trade isn't a pleasant concept, I suppose it's an economic neccesity given she does need some living expenses while she's in that transition phase. This time period/transition phase should be kept to a minimum, so you don't build up some image of yourself as the human ATM. For example, I guy who's getting a girl a visa to immigrate might consider timing it so she exits the BG trade once she gets her visa, then fly her out of LOS right after visa issuance. A guy who is going to live with her in LOS might consider having her leave the bar only on the very night her arrives. Then once she live with the guy, he should stop all this large payment for her living expenses. He's now paying for them directly, and at the most he should only provide a small amount of pocket money. No, small amount doesn't mean 40k baht or even 10k baht. It means whatever is reasonable that farangs provide to farang housewives. It should not become a situation of "institutionalized prostitution" via marriage or long-term cohabitation. ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 ABCinBK, thanks for your ideas. I agree 100 % with you. Of course there are 2 main dangers in this approach: 1) She could find a more generous farang. 2) I might not be able to "share" a BGF with her customers. But concerning the first point, if she wants a rich farang she should anyway forget me :: and concerning the second point, if I am not able to accept her profession I should forget her immediately :: But we are not at this stage yet. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 Hi ABC, haven't read from you for a while. Yes, I agree with your advice, fits my own experience. I've also started out as a romantic, now am still a romantic, be it a cynic romantic. Yes, it may work, but I don't think the chances are high, still, maybe worth giving it a go. But, Captain, go in there with eyes wide open, and take heed of what advice you get here. Good luck, and keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legover Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 BB said: ?ITS HER JOB? !!!!!!!!!!! Good thing too or the captain would never have got acquainted with her. CC Getting serious with bgs has been the undoing of many fine farangs, even those who are long time TL residents & don?t get whipped around by the further complication of long distance hardship. There?s one I?ve known for several years & knows the score still falls for the sweet young ones and gets pretty shaken when they run off to Scandinavia or somewhere when they get a holiday offer. In his case he?s looking for some emotional fulfillment his sequential girlfriends are unwilling or unable to provide, it simply comes down to a sort of gung-ho approach, even desperation with the wrong girls & unrealistic expectations, two factors whose chances of success can be improved with more thought, work & patience. The Chinese saying ?ask in three shops before you buy?, works well in affairs of the cock & the heart too. think for a moment what the total cost over say the next two years might be with this girl if you go ahead with a proposition, it?s going to be a lot, running into several thousand euros or dollars, could be a few tens of thousands. Just a thought and now is the time to do whatever you need to do to improve your chances before locking yourself in. there are lots of great women out there, many thousands that any of us here could settle down with very easily. cha-cha, krap. ABC has some good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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