voodoo31 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I was prompted to post this after reading through the Gullivers Travels post in the nightlife section. There was much debate about whether the girls who go there are Bar-girls, freelancers, normal Thai-girls (NTG) or some shade in between. It struck me that a number of posters who live in Thailand and especially those married to NTGs have these iron-clad views about how NTGs bahave and places they would go. For example, some have posted no NTG would ever enter such a bar as Gullivers or would ever be seen in the lower Sukhumvit area. In other words it is almost beyond possibility that the rules of NTG behaviour would not be followed. I was just wondering how accurate these views are. By definition I am defining A NTG as basically a non-prostitute, in other words a girl who does not accept money from guys for sex. In this way she is what I would consider a normal, average girl by western standards. Is it possible that some normal Thai girls might frequent such a bar as GT possibly with some friends because they have interest in practicising English, meeting farang, hanging out with farang, like the pool tables, bucking the perceived norms of Thai society etc? From reading some of the opinions here it seems utterly incomprehensible that any NTG could possible do this. That there is a set path and pattern of behaviour for NTGs and that none would ever stray from this conforming behaviour. Is this really accurate? To me Thailand is becoming more and more westernized with more independant thinking. Surely there muust be some NTGs who make a choice to act or bahave slightly differently to the norm. From my experience of living in Japan I know there is a suffocating conformity and peer pressure in bahaviour that is followed by 98% of people but there is 2% who say fuck it I will buck the system and do what I want. I see this as Japan following the west where maybe 10 or 15% buck the system and just do what they want. From personal experience I have met about 4 girls in the last 3 weeks in bars such as Gullivers and Nana dsico who definitely seem to be normal Thai girls with decent, verifiable jobs and not into prostitution at all. Maybe I am wrong but I just wonder if it is so unlikely that such girls are out there in these bars. So what is the general opinion of long time Thailand residents? Are the rules of behaviour for NTGs really that iron clad? Is it really so unlikely that a few could slip through the gap and buck the behavioural norms by visiting such bars and mixing with farang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straycat Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 IMHO some posters exaggerate the rules of "GTG:s" -- and hence I do not subscribe to the camp that it would be "utterly incomprehensible" that any GTG would be found in Grace or Gullivers. I'm quite sure I've met a few myself. The world is not black & white and Thai people (male and female) do not live in "bubbles" screened from the world around them. Having said that, I think you have to be very careful to assume it's a "normal Thai girl" you meet at those establishments. It's probably very unusual that girls not on the game (in one way or another) visit these spots; it's probably not very sanuk to them, it's an unfamiliar environment & prices may scare 'em off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Voodoo, Not sure about Gulliver's, but I doubt too many GTG's would want to be seen in Nana Disco. I took a supposed good girl there once and she was quite horrified. "I am not a bar girl, why you bring me here???!!!!". Ranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Interesting question. I think that you have posed the issue in the right way - what % of NTGs break out of the norm? The answer, I think, is more than we suspect and its growing all the time. There are a number of NTGs who, for whatever reason, decide that they want a farang b/f. Maybe they are divorced. Or want a "rich" b/f. Or want to move to Europe, Australia, etc. Whatever. These girls will venture into farang land. If they do not know anyone who can make proper introductions, they will start to visit the online chat rooms, visit farang venues like Hard Rock Cafe, etc. Once started on this path, its a slippery slope that often leads to dens of depravity like Gullivers or Nana Disco. Most NTGs, however, will find a way to meet farangs without having to get off the sky train between the Emporium and Siam Center. It will take a lot longer to get to know these ladies - a lot longer than your 3 week vacation. Many NTGs "know" from friends, the media, and other sources that if they want to catch a farang, they will have to put out. (this is also an oversimplication of us, but it probably does describe 95% of the farang guys in lower Suk.) These are the ones you want to meet. Burdened by this knowledge, they play the game just like their sisters across the oceans. If you treat them well, you will be rewarded. Finally, bear in mind that the pay off for these girls is not money. For some, it is just the excitement of the moment. (We all relate to that - it describes us.) If you find one of these, you have a gem. But most are in it for long term security, marriage, emmigration, etc. Enjoy, but be careful out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo31 Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 <Not sure about Gulliver's, but I doubt too many GTG's would want to be seen in Nana Disco.> Yes 99% of the time I would totally agree with you. I dont live in Thailand but have been coming here regularly for the past ten years and know a lot of guys who live here so I am not new to the scene. I met two girls together (aged 23 and 26) at Nana disco and have seen them about 5 times since. One is university educated - I believe her because of the detail of how she talks about her experiences there. Both work in reception for an up-market serviced appartments. Both dont like Thai men and didnt know how they could meet farang. One had heard of Nana disco and they went to have a look. I have been out with them a lot, one more than the other. Have not even been able to get a kiss in let alone sex. But both are definitely keen on a long term relationship with a westerner. I dont think I will continue anything with either one once I leave Thailand so this is not a personal post but just that both girls seem fairly genuine and not well-diguised freelancers. Another group of girls I met in GTs. One worked in the Bangkok branch on a multi-national company. She did accounts and payroll. Was able to dicuss the salaries and benefits of ex-pats form variious countries in detail and good English. No hint of trying to get onto me or anything just seemd like a well-educated, well-employed girl who maybe had an interest in farang (actually when she told me some of the salaries these guys get I can understand her getting interested). Anyway these are just some of my experiences here and I dont claim that I know 100% about these girls, but I have been around a whiel and think I can pick a patched up story pretty well. One thing that occurred to me was that long-termers living and married here probably dont put themselves into these kind of situations anymore, e.g. initiate a chat with a girl in Gullivers Travels bar, and so perhaps dont pick-up on subtle changes in behavior of some NTGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidy Ho Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Anyway these are just some of my experiences here ... [color:"blue"] Would you say these gals were "exception to the rules"??? [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legover Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 ?If you find one of these, you have a gem. But most are in it for long term security, marriage, emmigration, etc. Enjoy, but be careful out there?. Good point, lots of different characters out there & the care?s in being patient, watching and probing to find out what motivates her, how she goes about getting what she?s planning & being disciplined enough to pass and move along if the criteria are unfulfilled. Are they as nice on the inside as they look on the outside. We need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Last trip I spent a lot of time at GT's. Mostly with the better half. It was the only bar in the area she liked. She didn't like th others cos of "the scene" including Nana Disco. I found it funny when she asked me what all the TG's were doing there. When I explained the 'freelancer' concept, she didn't seem convinced. She seemed to think a lot of the girls were out for a good time, but she could tell some were after more. ST/LT or hunting for a farang boyfriend for one reason or another. The thing which makes me doubt the TG's are there only for fun, is the absence of Thai guys. Unless the girls who are not 'on the game' so to speak, are looking for a genuine relationship with farang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi, "I found it funny when she asked me what all the TG's were doing there. When I explained the 'freelancer' concept, she didn't seem convinced. She seemed to think a lot of the girls were out for a good time, but she could tell some were after more. ST/LT or hunting for a farang boyfriend for one reason or another." Funny. My wife did not get the freelancing bit either, she however was convinced that all the girls worked for the bar (i.e. employed by GT) and could be called over to come sit with you. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 >It struck me that a number of posters who live in Thailand and especially those married to NTGs have these iron-clad views about how NTGs bahave and places they would go. For example, some have posted no NTG would ever enter such a bar as Gullivers or would ever be seen in the lower Sukhumvit area. In other words it is almost beyond possibility that the rules of NTG behaviour would not be followed. I was just wondering how accurate these views are. Another inacurrate opinion: GTGs, NTGs, would not want to be seen dead in the Suk area, unless we take them there. Or, they are hunting. Even former bgs refuse to get off the sky train at Asok, Nana, Sala Daeng. For some (elective) health treatment my gf was standing in need, I suggested she goes to Bumrumgrad. Straight refusal. Her reasoning: she has to get off the train at Nana (that's where she was working) , then walk Soi 3, then, at hospital, she gets all the looks that prostitutes get. (The therapy would be at the world class level, she knew that). "If I come to them, they all think I am a prostitute and a farang is paying for me)". All that is true. Another hospital was chosen. I could not say much. At least, for the same thing, it was much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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