Is cheating justifiable?

[gummigut]

I think in most cases, cheat IS the appropriate word. Let's call a spade a spade!

 

"If it is done in good faith ... and does not cause pain then it is sustainable"

 

This is short sighted at best. rompan... does state, "But then there is the problem of disclosure". He is implying that his other half doesn't know and wouldn't condone. Even if she never finds out, it hurts onself. What kind of self esteem can one have when you can't be honest with the one who is supposed to be the closest person in your life?

 

As for Zaad's sentence, "Discussing with partner may not always result in a positive outcome". What do you guys think marriage is? It's work!

 

Marriage is about a union of two or more people (hehe). Sex is an integral part of life and thus marriage. If you can't talk about sex with the person who is supposedly closest to you, then what's the point in being in the marriage?

 

The way I see it those going behind the back, or who believe it's "understood", it's quite frankly cheating.

 

For those that have discussed it with their spouse and have their approval or permission then it's not cheating.

 

Zaad:

"It's also known that there's an unstoppable decrease in sexual activities in most 'aged' marriages, only 3 years for myself."

 

Let's examine this. Is the fact that sexual activities decrease unstoppable? The urges are still there. The fact that I see 70 year old guys in the bars is a testament to that. So what accounts for the decrease? Each case is unique, but it's probably day-to-day routine doldrums. Sex is IMPORTANT and should be discussed. Creativity is the key. You got to discuss this with your spouse. If this doesn't solve the frequency/quality issues then you need to talk about other alternative solutions (including sexual providers - ooh, isn't that a nice clinical term). If your marriage can't survive this, should it be a marriage? Maybe that's kinda harsh, sorry.

 

I don't think people really talk to each other in marriages. The people who I know that are truly happy in a marriage are few. Makes me wonder why people get married.

 

<<burp>>

[Encore]

> I don't think people really talk to each other in marriages. The people who I know that are truly happy in a marriage are few. Makes me wonder why people get married.<

 

I can't escape the impression that the responses to this thread are

a. influenced strongly by the age of the respondent

b. Influenced by whether the respondent is married or not, has been married, or has been married several times.

 

Sure, sex needs to be talked about within a marriage. But I believe that talking doesn't always resolve differences, if the differences are differences in libido, which may be age related, gender related or hormone related.

 

Then there is the additional factor of 'variety is the spice of life'. Is that factor stronger for men then for women? I don't know.

 

I think it is possible for two people to be happyliy married for a long time, but still have incompatible sexual drives.

that brings it back to the actual title of this thread. Should 'straying' sexually' be always disclosed to one's partner (married or not).

 

I personally do not think so. I believe in certain circumstances, disclosing sexual straying may do more good then harm.

But for me, that only applies when the 'straying' is purely a sexual act, rather then a flully fledged emotional secondary relationship. Simply because for me, I have found that maintaining two simultaneous relationships with different women is not sustainable.

 

I do agree with an earlier opinion expressed here. If straying, emotional involvement should at all cost be avoided, because that does threaten the primary relationship.

 

Hence my signature.

 

Of course, all my opinion expressed above could be dismissed as ultimately self serving.

[MrX]

GG wrote : 'rompan... does state, "But then there is the problem of disclosure". He is implying that his other half doesn't know and wouldn't condone."

 

Didnt really mean to imply this exactly.

The problem of disclosure involves the risk of causing pain primarily something which I am against

 

 

GG wrote"Even if she never finds out, it hurts onself. What kind of self esteem can one have when you can't be honest with the one who is supposed to be the closest person in your life?"

 

I take it as my own privilege to hurt myself..it is other people I worry about! ..not sure where self esteem fits in though..Can you explain?

 

Honesty is a pretty multiple edged sword...Not sure if you are married GG, or if so, for how long, but as a veteran of nearly 25 years my distilled experience is that too much honesty tolls the death knell...Marriage is much more about tolerance and harmony, which may involve 'honestly' not wanting to enter certain spaces of the other...the searing stuff is best for juvenilia and therapy IMHO

 

ikkrang wrote: "I personally do not think so (ie straying should always be disclosed). I believe in certain circumstances, disclosing sexual straying may do more good then harm.

But for me, that only applies when the 'straying' is purely a sexual act, rather then a flully fledged emotional secondary relationship. Simply because for me, I have found that maintaining two simultaneous relationships with different women is not sustainable."

 

Agree with the first part obviously by why limit it to "sex only flings"?..arguably the harm of disclosure may be much greater when the relation is fully-fledged?..or perhaps you mean ; with the benefit of experience you wouldnt get into "heavy weight" straying anyway.?

 

Do realize we are talking about the human heart here which is a very complicated and various organ........

[MrX]

127 wrote: "but in the case i'd be cheating, the main word would be discretion"

 

very French if I may say so!

[Zaad]

If you can't talk about sex with the person who is supposedly closest to you, then what's the point in being in the marriage?

Very true of course since discussing the problem with partner is the only way to get a mutual acceptable solution but there's no guarantee in realizing this.

 

Is the fact that sexual activities decrease unstoppable? The urges are still there. You got to discuss this with your spouse. If this doesn't solve the frequency/quality issues then you need to talk about other alternative solutions (including sexual providers - ooh, isn't that a nice clinical term). If your marriage can't survive this, should it be a marriage? Maybe that's kinda harsh, sorry.

 

Maybe not harsh at all. The real problem arises when no solutions are found.

Marriages come with all sorts of problems, not only the sex part, and I believe that the power of those two people is (should be) the ability to confront eachother and communicate until any kind of problem is solved. If that's not the case then that a certain crack will get bigger and deeper.

 

Makes me wonder why people get married.

That's a different story. I never had the slightest intention to get married. Not my style.

But that was until I met a girl 10.000kms away from me, that obviously changed my options. And I (we) chose what seemed best for us, no regrets.

[Old Hippie]

I posted a poll on this awhile back, as I recall, the consensus is/was at the time anyway, if she ain't puttin' out, it is o.k. to go out...and was not considered cheating as you were not/are not getting any at home. I know my last Signifigant other stopped putting out, just decided she wasn't itnterested (part of the manic depression maybe? or maybe she just knew I liked it...?). So I decided to go out and get some! Didn't think it cheating (still don't) as I wasn't getting any at home, so how could it be?

[Encore]

> Agree with the first part obviously by why limit it to "sex only flings"?..arguably the harm of disclosure may be much greater when the relation is fully-fledged?..or perhaps you mean ; with the benefit of experience you wouldnt get into "heavy weight" straying anyway.? <

 

yes, of course, I expressed myself clumsily.

To confirm, IMO, straying as a purely sexual fling, may not be 'perfect' but I think disclosing it may very well cause a lot more harm than non disclosure.

My limit is the purely sexual fling. I do not believe an emotional attachment to a second woman would be tenable, it would be bound to impact on my primary relation, and eventually risk destroying it. For that reason, i have removed myself from the risk of ongoing involvements by butterflying.

 

Admittedly, it can sometimes be hard to not get involved, it can take some discipline NOT to go back to someone that I shared a good experience with.

[Zaad]

"So I decided to go out and get some! Didn't think it cheating (still don't) as I wasn't getting any at home, so how could it be? "

 

I think it is cheating, OH, and GG said it nicely:

The way I see it those going behind the back, or who believe it's "understood", it's quite frankly cheating.

 

For those that have discussed it with their spouse and have their approval or permission then it's not cheating.

 

But frankly, I really don't blame you for that. I think she was at the very least equally at fault, if not more (being the source).

If a man needs activity A, receives it throughout the years and a woman in all her selfishness stops or decreases the supply and has no ears, mood or interest for an alternative then she must also be woman enough to take responsibility for her actions which *caused* your problem in the first place.

 

It's sad when no alternative is found, because sex only should never be the marriage breaker when all other, relatively more important, factors (each to his own) are still present as they were form day one.

[Old Hippie]

"...The way I see it those going behind the back, or who believe it's "understood", it's quite frankly cheating..."

 

We never discussed it, but I just went out one night, and when she asked where I had been, I told her...she seemed to not really care. This was in the last 2 years or so, apparently, her depression was getting really bad at that point...was not getting treatment or taking meds... Oh well, over now but the night mares!

[Zorro]

Sigh.... Here we go again. Do we really need another discussion to come up with a PC term that does not offend the cheaters? I think you only have a right to come up with a new definition if you tell your wife about your *extramarital* activities and gets her approval for spreading your seed. If not, let's just get back to the original question, shall we?

 

I don't think you understand what i am getting at here.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with PC.

My point is that by using the word cheating in the question we are presupposing that extra marital sex is wrong in the first place and that if we are involved in such behaviour we are doing something bad.

A much better way to frame the question would be

 

Is there anything wrong with extramarital sex?

It is obvious from your post that you are not in favour of said activities but life is not as black and white as you paint it.

Your suggestion that it is okay to spread your seed if you seek your wifes approval is just not practical for some people.There are women out there who full well know their husband is 'shopping around' but do not want it pushed in their face. They would rather just pretend it didn't exist. In fact some wives are relieved not to have to shoulder the sexual burden any longer. Is the man doing anything wrong or bad in this situation?

I don't think so.