Do you respect P4P women?

[JJsushi]

jasmine said:just count my blessings that my parents do NOT believe in "easy way out" and the morale stays with me, I have never taken an easy way out.

 

Jasmine

 

What you say is significantly different than what the majority of punters/posters say on this board. Your saying that YOUR PARENTS did not "take the easy way out". Most guys here keep refering to the actual prostititues 'taking the easy way out".

 

Big difference.

 

Your mother sacrificing is why you received an education-which provided you with better options, instead of quitting school and working on a farm, factory or moving to the nearest city to do menial labor or become a prostitute.

Your mother labored and sacrificed to maintain her value system. You benefited from that.

 

I really get tired of hearing the same old "she is a prostitute because she has low morals, a poor value system, too lazy to work in a farm or factory and wants to take the "easy way out". Punters need to wake up and look at the big Thai picture, to understand why they have access to such cheap sex.

 

There is a reason why the commercial industry of prostitution exists in Thailand and why the 18% of eligible Northeast women are the fodder for the industry.

 

A corrupt government, obsolete social systems in a modern world, third world development, etc are some of the many reasons this commercial industry exists and an abnormal number of Thai women sell their bodies for cash.

 

 

To answer the question do I respect Thai women in P4P? You damn right I do. The same as I respect women who are not in P4P. There is no reason to disrespect them. And contrary to what others may believe I don't think a woman selling her body for cash is an "easy way out" by any means. It is simply another option in a life of limited choices.

As an American I had and have the opportunity to pursue a career in any field that meets my interests, not 3 or 5. A friend of mine recently became a medical doctor at the age of 40 because in his 30's he wanted a career change and medicine was his dream. How many poor, uneducated Northeast women in Thailand have those same options?

[MaiLuk]

Jas,

 

What a great post.

 

:up:

[jasmine]

[color:"red"] As an American I had and have the opportunity to pursue a career in any field that meets my interests, not 3 or 5. A friend of mine recently became a medical doctor at the age of 40 because in his 30's he wanted a career change and medicine was his dream. How many poor, uneducated Northeast women in Thailand have those same options? [/color]

 

There are more options in the USA because, again, I believe,the parents who try their best to have the children at least finish HS. In Thailand, many teachers and some politicians who try their darnest to convince many parents to sacrifice so their children have more options. I still feel that without the parents' pressure for the children to go off to work at such young age, Thailand would be better off.

 

Because the children have to go off at such young age, the choices are limited, it is simple catch 22. A few, mind you, not many, parents who have done the sacrifice who may not have big houses now, but their children are teachers who earn a living. Of course with the right path of selling land and whatever to send kids to school, many parents end up poorer than they were but proud.

 

I do feel that witout poverty, more parents will love to have their kids in school and that is, the economy and options must improve. However, I maintain that the parents can and should influence their children, who else would?

 

Jasmine

[Guest]

 

Jasmine,

Thank you so much for the great post! This is the exact same thing that I was trying to say earlier. I feel very lucky to have a person such as yourself on this board! All the board members could learn a few things.

[jasmine]

[color:"red"] Thank you so much for the great post! This is the exact same thing that I was trying to say earlier. I feel very lucky to have a person such as yourself on this board! All the board members could learn a few things.

 

[/color]

 

That is very sweet of you to say so.

 

Jasmine

[pattaya127]

Jaz, yes, thanks, but the sad thing is, and what i was trying to ask of you before, but I will say it myself: You saying this is an indictment of the whole thai society, because these values that your family has, and that so many of our own families share with them, have been downplayed in thai life for too long, to me it amounts to a huge conspiracy against being a woman and given the right to dignity and self-improvement.

 

Even if not practiced thru-out the country, if these values you describe stood for something in Thailand, there would have never been a humonguous sex industry whose size and "it's OK-ness" keep your country in the gutter, when it had all the means to escape the smirks and jokes of the international community.

 

Shame on your leaders and anyone who could have done something, and shame on thais too, for not voicing decency! All of them and i mean it to the top!

[Guest]

Even if not practiced thru-out the country, if these values you describe stood for something in Thailand, there would have never been a humonguous sex industry...

You can never solve systemic problems by individual action. Jasmine's post (BTW, great post, Jasmine) illustrates that individuals can and do transcend the societal pressure. But to change the behavior at a global level you don't implore people to change their ways--you have to change the environment.

[check_bin_krap]

Agree Jasmine. The sending of teenagers into prostitution is different from what my ex faced, and choosed herself. Her parents had the same view as your mother. But they couldn't influence her choice at 28 yrs old. And believe me, if they could have found a way for her to continue school when she was young they would have choosen that. They had many kids to take care of, the family had to starve during dry seasons in Isaan. They ate whatever they could, rats is still on the menu some places in isaan I believe?

 

Without indulging in anything they had a huge debt to service.

 

I think ex did the right thing though. And I don't think anyone should look down on prostitutes before knowing the complete story. Thats my main point in my ranting I guess.

 

Yes friend, I read your post wrong.

 

Ex family are doing better now, her mother and father passed away a long time ago. Her brothers and sisters have managed to create better conditions for themselves, through hard work. And when it came to youngest sister through marrying right (within the village). Things have changed in their village. Conditions have improved. People age fast in the sun in Isaan though, I was surprised to see this last time I went. People who I knew and thought of as young looked old and wrinkled.

 

Their kids can get education and a better future than ex.

[Guest]

>>>Punters need to wake up and look at the big Thai picture, to understand why they have access to such cheap sex. <<<

 

 

and i think that you should do that. the "big thai picture' is *not* just economics, especially not today. the big thai picture starts in the village, and in order to understand that one has to spend time there, and speak the language, and spend enough time there to get close (or go through some very tiring anthropological research papers).

 

 

 

>>>I am insistent on the point that economics/opportunity is the major reason many women go into prostitution.<<<

 

it may be on a superficial basis, but it does neclect some base contributing factors, such as ethical collapse, a fastly proceeding slumisation in the villages. just judging the world according to economics is not gonna explain much.

 

 

 

>>>It is known from my readings that the Northeastern provinces of Thailand are considered the poorest and have the least economic and educational opportunities.<<<

 

 

and that is only partially right.

20, 30 years ago that was the case, but after the communist insurgency vast amounts of money and development aid has been pushed into the northeast, also to avoid that a new insurgency starts from the most populous region of thailand. there are northern and southern provinces which are at least as "poor" as the northeast. there are northeastern provinces such as korat that are comparatively very rich, but still have vast amounts of prostitutes.

 

 

an example i have brought up many times is ban jan in roi et province. a village which is infamous all over thailand for the vast amounts of prostitutes. this village is known for its bangkok style villas, has lots of money, and still the majority of girls enter prostitution - first in bangkok, and when they are old enough, in switzerland. according to your theory on solely povert driven prostitution the girls in that village should not be there where they are. but they are. there must be a bit more than just basic economics in the play there to explain the phenomenon of prostitution here in thailand.

 

why are comparatively few thai muslim girls in prostitution even though their economical situation is hardly better then the one of the buddhist majority?

 

the question is more that why are still so many girls entering the field even though one can survive otherwise well enough nowadays. of course they won't make as much as in prostitution, but that counts also in the west - very few professions make as much money as prostitution, but still you have, as you pointed out, a far lower percentage of women in the west entering the field.

 

 

i have more than a bit of anecdotal evidence which does not support your theory. for example over the years i have offered several nieces of the missus to house them, and/or finance their education. but they still decided for prostitution. why?

my explanation is simple. certain values important have not been instilled into them at an crucial age. and they took the "easy road" - instead of hard study they went the way of quick earnings. and now i might have to adopt a child (please not :: : of one niece who simply is not fit to be a mother.

 

according to your theory my missus would have ended up in the field as well. but she didn't. her life story is far worse than jasmin's one - her real dad was a very low ranked soldier and killed, one day delivered with half his head missing. she was responsible for cooking for the whole family when she was 7 (!), had to start working as a daylabourer at the age of 11.

but her stepfather and mother still kept up certain values even though the dire poverty, and she did not enter the field. even though she was as tempted as jasmine (and as most poor women here, and more than a few wealthier as well). she was not lucky enough that her parents knew or cared much about education, so she got hardly any. but they instilled in her a sense of honesty and selfpride. that way she learned a profession the very hard way, 16 to 20 hours a day, no day off. 2 days holiday a year.

 

you ask about how many wealthier women enter protitution. here in thailand many do. just have a look at the top range massage parlours and their catalogs of movie starlets, news announcers etc, women who have actually economically and educationally nothing in common with that poor, uneducated village girl, and still...

 

yes, it's economics. but a strange set of economics not possible without a certain moral decay (buddhism is *NOT* any more permissive in sexual matters than christianity, opposing popular sextourist believe here ).

 

and this rot in thai society is not just seen in the ease in which appearantly so many women enter one of the many different forms of prostitution. you can see it in the rapidly increasing violence as well. you can see it in the persitent corruption. in the huge gap between rich and poor, the highest in asia together with china.

[check_bin_krap]

True, northeast Thailand has changed since the 70's. But whats your point with talking about north? A huge part of prostitutes come from the north, and probably the selling of daugthers is more common there than in northeast.

 

Just because isaan ladies are in farang areas it doesn't mean that more prostitutes come from isaan than north.