Guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 I know one person in particular who started out as a tourist on 2-3 week trips, kept combing back, and now is basically moved over there. If he has to come back to the U.S. for 2 weeks a year he'll try to reduce it to one, and begrudge that. Others I know, though, are retired and in Thailand but can do 1-2 months back in the U.S. somewhat more comfortably. But another one with open-ended returns seems to get burned out on trips back earlier and earlier, and I think he's becoming more like the first guy. Significantly, all of them have no problems at all with the finances. Am sure it's a different ballgame if you have to generate income while over there. I look at teaching-English salaries and compare them to my usual costs and it's generally not pretty. Even with a tougher row to hoe there, though, I can see why many will still try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 The person I know in the original thread is well off. He can live a comfortable lifestyle in the west. He dated a lot in the west and always seemed to have enough women. I'd say upper middle class at worst. His problems are primarily a disconnect with life in the west. Also, his disgust with the 'attitudes' of American women. I think once he started traveling internationally and was treated 'better' by women overseas than American women he gave up on American women. The second person I talked about was struggling financially in the states and I would surmise that he felt he could not get as many dates with American women as he liked. So for him, he may as well struggle financially in SE Asia but he'll at least have a more congenial lifestyle than he would have had otherwise in the west. With regards to the feelings of disconnect and can't 'function' in the west, is it a valid feeling? Everyone is different with their own experiences but in some cases I can see the validity of that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 I can understand the feeling of being "disconnected" very well. Sort of happens when you follow the formula that society tells you to follow and then one day you say "Why?". It happend to me . I went to a good uni, I made good grades and then I graduated and got a "good" job and was dating high caliber chicks with the intentions of getting married and raising a family. Then one day when I was getting my ass smacked on the job politically, which of course translates into an insecure employnent situation, I asked myself "what the fuck is the piont of all this shit?" I looked around me and realized that I was surrounded by a bunch of financially well of guy s who were playing the game perfectly and succeeding with the formula but were fucking miserable and I sadly was turning into one; basically a fucking automaton. That is when I felt my disconnect and lied to about what was important in life. Success was measured by "things" and not life "experiences". I left my career for a couple of years and traveled which I loved, still to this day not sure if it was the "best" move because if I did not I would more than likely be independently welthy by now. I do know that during my sabbatical I found alot out about myself and I am still attepting to find the meaning in my life but at least I am doing it on my terms, albeitly a few pennies poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off. Tyler Durdin, Fight Club Oneye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 yes, I feel the same. In fact I never liked the western life style. I did participate in the rat race though, until 5 years ago. I quit and am glad I did. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I think many Thais working 10 to 12 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week would LOVE to be in the farang rat race. Being "retired" in any country gets you out of the rat race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 shygye, don't want to change the direction of this thread but i completely disagree with your comment. Thais productivity is very low compared to the falang. The ones i see who are producing at any competitive rate is mostly likely in an international environment. Okay they are required to be there but they aren't exactly killing themselves. Most are there only physically. Some of the blame can't be put on them when you have staff to customer rates at 6 to 3. Some thais might think they are part of a rat race but it is probably defined within falang's parameters; their rat race is not the same at least not yet.... Put it another way, if thais were competing on the same suface, it would be like a 35 to 9 score and not in their favor(since i like sports and american football!).. Cardinalblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 >>>Okay they are required to be there but they aren't exactly killing themselves.<<< and that one i completely disagree with. i have many friends here who are average working joes, and they work extremely hard. their average sleeping hours are between 2 and 4 hours a night. some are even holding two 8 hour jobs. they may not be working in a western style company with high efficiency (some do though), but that doesn't change the fact that they work their arses off. have you ever had a closer look at factory work here, for example at the many textile companies? their rules are incredible, rules such as talking is not allowed during work, etc. most people doing in addition to their 8 hours do another 8 to ten of overtime to make ends meet. before me and the missus met she worked for 7 years 16 to 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, two days off a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickfarang Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 "The morning rush hour traffic depressed him." I guess he's not from Bangkok then. Maybe its not "The states" that's getting to him. Maybe its his family. I also arrived in the U.S. on Monday and though I find the holiday crowds terrible, even compared to the shopping centers in Bangkok on Sundays, and the prices out of this world even by BKK standards, its pleasant enough to be able to spend time with my granddaughters and see old friends. Yeah, and take care of some more serious stuff too. Life here seems luxurious compared to my life in Thailand. Just think about this for a moment: People in the U.S. (and many other parts of the world for that matter) shower in water clean enough to drink. Think about it. Sounds like your friend is trying to avoid his old life. The traffic is just an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Working long hours does not necessary equate to killing themselves at work or to a strong work ethic. If that was the case, many other third would countries could claim the same thing... Are you saying that thai culture has a strong inherent work ethic? I could also cite many individuals, mainly chinese roots, that do work hard and smart. But it is not systemic within the thai culture.. But i assess hard work/work ethic by attitude, a sense of urgency and measure it as an intrinsic value. It is a means in itself not a means to an end as which the above examples are.... The examples cited are just extrinsic working conditions in trying to make ends meet. So is the land of smiles, mai bpen rai, thai time, prostitution, padlocking their factory exits, and sanook now is the land of a strong work ethic? I sure don't see it and the environment does not demonstrate it domestically or internationally. They sure don't get it from their poor educational system so not sure where they would pick it up from? My observations is that workers and students do only what is required of them all with in a collective and group mentality. Nothing more! As a matter of fact, they intentionally do things or not do things so not to stand out from their peers. They will go down together or up together as a group. It is very much a cooperative mentality vs a competitive one. There is very little understanding of competition overall which isn't necessarily a bad thing.... One can argue much more that thais are more apt to get killed to and from work (auto accidents) or occupationally hazards than than from self-induced stress from the work itself..... Hell, when i was trying to find out informational about occupational medicine and stress related work illnesses, their answer was "what the hell is that?" I have observed that "serious" and "intense" feelings/people are not positive words and those traits are just not agreeable wihin the thai culture (work or education).... So when i was leaving the american express office as the only customer at that time today about 10am, i counted 11 workers staring aimlessly into space or chit chatting with their co-workers. I guess it is better than the ministry of labor dept where they have nicely arranged for their desk workers to watch various TVs around the general office. As a stated earlier, that is not the fault of the worker but poor human resource management and policies. Yet labor is cheap so it is hard to criticize overstaffing (as how we see it and not how they see it).... Yet, those images sure don't condone an environment of hard work and a strong work ethic/values.... Cardinalblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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