Guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 >>>>>>where does it end and how to line up priorities in order of importance to everybody's liking and convenience? Not an easy task to say at least.<<<<< Well.....Let's see. 'Citizen is destitute, and a probable concern of him dying on the sidewalk on soi 19'. >>>>>how to line up priorities in order of importance to everybody's liking and convenience?<<<<< And I think, therein, lays the crux of the problem. No one is liking it, nor is it convenient. By not addressing, makes the problem instantly go away. At least for host government. It's simply dumped into the laps of the Thai's. It doesn't make the problem go away. It's kicked out the back door of the embassy, onto the back street soi where the rest of the garbage is picked up, so our officials can make it to 'Tea Time' at 5 O'clock. I'll get off my soapbox now. Some serious changes need to made, in how we deal with our responsibilities, IMO. But I do agknowelge, that it is akin to pissing into the wind. I'll shut up now. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi Suadum, Yea, maybe you're right. In fact, maybe kick him next time you see him, for being so stupid to end up in a situation he obviously asked for. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 >>>Where do you get this stuff?<<< Get what? The State department has now dictated the Thai Embassy's every need, and reaction? What world do you live on? The US Embassy in Thailand has full powers to fly anyone home, they detirmine as worthy. Are you saying the Thai US Embassy needs congressional approval for making a decision to fly home a stranded American???? That is just plain silly. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 HIGH THAIED said:>>>Where do you get this stuff?<<< Get what? The State department has now dictated the Thai Embassy's every need, and reaction? What world do you live on? The US Embassy in Thailand has full powers to fly anyone home, they detirmine as worthy. Are you saying the Thai US Embassy needs congressional approval for making a decision to fly home a stranded American???? That is just plain silly. HT Let me see if I can make it more simple for you. You said that the embassies make their own decisions. On policies, they DO NOT. On how to interpret and implement the policy, yes they do make their own decisions. Social welfare of US citizens aborad is a policy decision and not left up to the embassies. If there is no policy for providing said social welfare, then there is no decision to be made at the Thai embassy. Is that simple enough for you? So, your broad and sweeping generalization that embassies make thier own decisions is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi Jxxxl, Ok. I promised to shut up, but allow me this. I understand any Embassy has rules to govern them by. My point was that within those rules, there is nothing to preclude embassy officials there, to hear of this problem (guy on soi 19), and keep them from taking pro-active action. Which would include a decision that he needed to be brought back home, and given aid. From what I know, that is their decision alone. And have the leeway to make those decisions on their own, without congressional approval. If I'm wrong about that, then is my bad. But really doesn't have anything to do with my point. My whole point is that the guy's embassy should be taking care of him. If there are rules restricting them from doing so, then should be altered. I'm not trying to beat existing diplomats over the head there, or placing blame. I'm just saying that if their hands are truely tied, then somebody needs to rectify that. If it were me there, in that position, I'd be very fustrated. As I would imagine there are some there now, who might feel the same. I can't imagine anyone, not wishing their own countries embassy would be there to help, if 'got lost', and give them the full power of their office, to do what is nessessary to help. It's just an expectation, that is reasonable. The problem is, is that it is often not the case. And needs to be fixed. That is all I'm trying to say. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 HIGH THAIED said:Hi Jxxxl, Ok. I promised to shut up, but allow me this. I understand any Embassy has rules to govern them by. My point was that within those rules, there is nothing to preclude embassy officials there, to hear of this problem (guy on soi 19), and keep them from taking pro-active action. Which would include a decision that he needed to be brought back home, and given aid. From what I know, that is their decision alone. And have the leeway to make those decisions on their own, without congressional approval. If I'm wrong about that, then is my bad. But really doesn't have anything to do with my point. My whole point is that the guy's embassy should be taking care of him. If there are rules restricting them from doing so, then should be altered. I'm not trying to beat existing diplomats over the head there, or placing blame. I'm just saying that if their hands are truely tied, then somebody needs to rectify that. If it were me there, in that position, I'd be very fustrated. As I would imagine there are some there now, who might feel the same. I can't imagine anyone, not wishing their own countries embassy would be there to help, if 'got lost'. It's just an expectation, that is reasonable. The problem is, is that it is often not the case. And needs to be fixed. That is all I'm trying to say. HT I understand your point and what you think a countries embassy SHOULD do. We disagree on that and that is fair enough. I don't really know what the embassy is actually authorized to do - not sure if the real answer is in this thread. My point is, generally, social welfare issues, I don't believe, are part of most embassies' charter - they do vary of course. If you feel they should, you should call your congressman and start there. However, I doubt that the welfare of travellers will carry much priority relative to the hungry, homeless and destitute back in the US. At a human level, I don't really see this guy as any different than some poor suffering Thai or Burmese person. Just because he may share my nationality doesn't buy him more sympathy from me. I would probably give him money get some food, and if he was a friend I would help more. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi, >>>>However, I doubt that the welfare of travelers will carry much priority relative to the hungry, homeless and destitute back in the US.>>>> But what can the embassy in Thailand do about the poverty back home? They can only address that which confronts them, and deal with it, as best they can, that which is presented before them. I'm not suggesting a foreign traveler be treated any better than they might be at home. I'm only protesting that once I leave the shores of America, 'My Embassy', has the responsibility to look after me, and that I should have a reasonable expectation that they will be there, if needed. I pay their salaries to be there. Maybe a naive notion, but is the reality, all the same. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 I gotta shut up too cuz the new vanadate crystals I put into this laser this morning are burned in and temp stabilized, so now I gotta get to work tuning it. But I just wanted to point out that while your heart is in the right place, quite frankly there is not enough resources to go around. Something has to not be funded. And I will not go near the criminal irresponsibility of the current US administration with their tax cuts without spending cuts cuz this is apolitical LOL . My theories are built upon the work commonly referred to as "Lifeboat Ethics" (click for a sample of it). While it is more harsh than I could ever be and I therefore do not agree with all it's conclusions, it is a good thought starter for making the tough decisions when faced with finite resources. I had a debate class on this in Uni in 1981 -- no right or wrong answers, just debate and opening of one's mind. I have to say that it has made me a superior manager because I can make those hard decisions. Someone has to, jing jing. The problems do not go away by themselves. Bye now. My diode-pumped solid-state Nd:YAG laser is calling my name (just said that cuz it sounds cool !) Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi guys, some of you are speaking about travellers and embassies' duties of old ages. Before the ages of mass tourism, they had time to take care all citizens in trouble or not. A dinner with the ambassador and instant help. If jailed a small pressure and maybe of threat of sending for the fleet (british and later american) and the prisoner was released. Today they don't have time or resources to take care as described above. Still some american tourists in europe breaking a law, want to ask for the american ambassador to come and fix everything, thinking that the american passport gives immunity and can't even understand why american laws don't apply instead of some local law as they are american citizens. :: elef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinkas Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 HIGH THAIED said:I understand any Embassy has rules to govern them by. My point was that within those rules, there is nothing to preclude embassy officials there, to hear of this problem (guy on soi 19), and keep them from taking pro-active action. Which would include a decision that he needed to be brought back home, and given aid. From what I know, that is their decision alone. And have the leeway to make those decisions on their own, without congressional approval. HT HT: I don't think congressional/political approval would be required. However, there are likely to be very strict criteria which needs to be met. Depending on the country, if the cost of repatriation exceeds a certain amount of money it is likely that a relatively senior foreign ministry official based in the embassy's home country will need to sign off (this is to ensure that on a worldwide basis that like cases are treated alike). Many government do not provide any funding whatsover for the repatriation of nationals. This is a political decision. The consular section of the embassy I worked at was funded out of one budget and foreign policy advice was funded out of another budget. If we repatriated someone and they didn't pay the embassy back, we would need to cut some other service. Policy makers make political decisions over the extent of the services provided and the embassy is funded accordingly. JXXL: A poster above lists what services the British Embassy provides to their nationals. While this is not a completely comprehensive list it does cover most services an embassy provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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