Zorro Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 I can't believe some of the moralising by some posters on this board. The girls are lazy, they are money hungry, they wouldn't work in an iron lung etc. They have other choices, they could try to work their way up the social ladder, they could work for 100 baht a day like plenty of other people etc It is really easy to speak from a distance and from a perspective where you didn't have to do that yourself and you have come from a society where upwards mobility was much easier and where the sort of poverty that exists in Thailand is unknown. I don't judge or blame the girls going into prostitution. They are in many cases just the victims of circumstance. Many have little education, prospects or money. Most start out as decent people i am sure. The girls are not aware of the way that they will change as a result of working in the industry. They are often exploited by family and older workers in the industry. They won't last in the industry unless they develop a hard inner core that is just the nature of the beast. There are so many issues that they have to deal with as a result of working in the industry that the psychological damage can be very great indeed and in a very short period of time. Punters too are part of the problem and many also suffer from the same problems of the girls. I believe long term punters get just as sucked into many of the same traps of the girls and as a result have similar difficulties in forming worthwhile relationships. When you put the punter with the prostitute and try to form a 'normal relationship' there really is very little hope of success. I don't think we should be too judgemental when we look at the choices other people make. Neither should we expect others to have the same morals or values. Rather we should try to understand the individual circumstances that lead to their decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomc12 Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 SkiBum, "Why does a sponsor believe that giving money to a whore is something that motivates her to change...when in fact it is the reason she came to being a prostitute". As I mentioned before, there is a difference between wanting more money and needing more money. My "sponsoree" got into the business because she needed money to pay for her mother's illness. Any idea of the job opportunities and how much they pay for a teenage girl without a high school diploma? Do you feel dismissive of a girl/woman who sells her body to help her mother or respect for the strength of her love? "The saving is impossible..." I don't think impossible; just difficult. Why did my "sponsoree" stay in the business after her mother recovered? Because she got trapped by the financial dynamics in a poor family. All of a sudden, she was elevated to the major breadwinner, the person who could take care of their problems, and the rest of the family wouldn't let her out. Trapped by the conflicting feelings of little status in Thai society, but big tanna at home. Trapped by seeing her younger nieces and nephews wearing "flappers" to school and knowing how they felt. I would disagree with the blanket assertion by some posters that because a girl is poor or Thai, that selling her body is easy or a hallmark of laziness. To OH, I too have met some real scalawags. Sometimes I laugh at their machinations; sometimes I feel sorry for them. To HT, My "sponsoree" has left the business and is happily married to a falang in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 tomc12- Says, "As I mentioned before, there is a difference between wanting more money and needing more money. My "sponsoree" got into the business because she needed money to pay for her mother's illness." Your really asking me...I have a sick buffalo and need money-this must be true because she used the words "Sick Buffalo". Wants and Needs are different...your right here! Needs are only: Food, water and shelter...all else is wants! Even helping your mother is a want... A good and just Want but a "Want" non the less! Because, she helps the family out by becomming a whore and then the family... "Why did my "sponsoree" stay in the business after her mother recovered? Because she got trapped by the financial dynamics in a poor family." You really must see by your own words that becomming a whore wasn't the answer it became a problem...She then became a victim again...the cycle kept going! You said, "Do you feel dismissive of a girl/woman who sells her body to help her mother or respect for the strength of her love?" No... glad she does...I enjoy fucking whores! Every sad story is more involved then what your ears hear...you never hear the real/whole/truth... The time the 1/2% is true I do feel for the girl... I have a friend in Pattaya who's mother needed an operation or she would die...this girl left Japan (where she had an internship after graduation from University) to become a dancer in a GoGo...she sent money to her mom to get well...parents asked where she got money it was from a bonus at work and pay raise! Her mother got well...she still dances in Pattaya! Why! She likes the lifestyle, good money, always on vacation around the world...loves the party...she got addicted to the scene! I'm no different...I love the scene too, bag whores, have fun, fuck till you drop...it's great fun! Still doesn't answer the original question of why you should sponsor a BG now does it! You "Want" to justify sending a girl money for "what" reason? Is it because she has a sick buffalo and you want to help...right? SkiBum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 as harsh as it may seem there's no arguing here with skibum - it still doesn't answer the original question does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli13 Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 sure spnsorships with prostitutes are not restricted to the far east, south americas or any other poor far away exotic holiday destination etc. there's loads of guys who still haven't managed to 'discover' paradise like we have, but at least they know where to get their rocks off in their own necks of the woods of farang country. so I'd say as long as they're rich enough they may encounter a similar 'exotic' sexy girl at the local strip club, MP or brothel & somehow pull off an allnighter & boom they're trapped!!! well I did it so I'm sure others did as well? of course these days it'll be unlikely to ever happen, but don't forget it's not just dentist likes white trash on their backs at the farang brothels - it's an exotic mix of white, yellow, brown & black out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Looking at some of the posts here, some of the language used to describe the girls, and some of the descriptions of the girls, makes me think some people just pick the wrong girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Zorro wrote: "...I can't believe some of the moralising by some posters on this board. The girls are lazy, they are money hungry, they wouldn't work in an iron lung etc. They have other choices, they could try to work their way up the social ladder, they could work for 100 baht a day like plenty of other people etc It is really easy to speak from a distance and from a perspective where you didn't have to do that yourself and you have come from a society where upwards mobility was much easier and where the sort of poverty that exists in Thailand is unknown..." Fair enough, but no good to just accept what these girls tell you as blind truth either... And don't over simplify either, these girls know what buttons to push. As HT siad, a lot of it comes down to personality traits that drive these girls into this line of work. Not just poverty, and most impoverished women don't go into this line of work either, so poverty is not the only answer to why they do it. Not addressed here is why a girl who really hates the business stays in it when presented with a chance to leave...? if they hate fucking strangers they don't like, then why fuck 20 and have less thain if you fuck one only ? many of these girls pass up opportunities due to short sightedness, and plain greed and stupidity, mostly greed, but that goes hand and hand with stupidity. Many girls are holding out for that big score...one guy gives them 2k for a short time? maybe next guy gives 3k. Getting 20k from a sponsor every month? maybe next guy gives 30K...not many of these girls will give up all they have comming in, and the free living lifestyle they have, to be with a guy who gives them 5-10K a month to send home? a guy who will want some disipline in their lives. The ones who do, do so because they truely hate the business, and maybe actually like the guy, or at least see it as a way out of town. The rest stay...and those who stay are the ones I think most of us are talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 I agree. Most of these girls are not starving and are probably the same as most other people in their village. Simple lives that have substain the thais until the 80s when TV took off and showed them what they are missing. I think poverty has very little to do with it and they may play that line to make the farangs feel quilty. I stongly believe it is greed and lazyness that drives the girls to sell there bodies. It is society that accepts/ tolerates the bargirls that allows them to even attempt such a profession. If the moral right had its way the girls would lose too much face to become a whore. With these driving forces, I would not trust a bargirl as far as I could throw her. Eventually her true personality will come out and she will go bad. Maybe not initally, maybe would never directly steal from you but it will and definately does go bad. Never really met a relationship between a farang and bar girl that worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 The more I read NP the more I realise we will fail sooner or later, we're doomed! ....the humanity experts are in da house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Zorro wrote: "...I believe long term punters get just as sucked into many of the same traps of the girls and as a result have similar difficulties in forming worthwhile relationships. When you put the punter with the prostitute and try to form a 'normal relationship' there really is very little hope of success..." Sorry I didn't address this in my last post, yes, you are right about Punters, we have issues that drive us to this as well. True on the relatiionships between punter and BGs, but there are some successess... Zorro wrote: "...I don't think we should be too judgemental when we look at the choices other people make. Neither should we expect others to have the same morals or values. Rather we should try to understand the individual circumstances that lead to their decisions..." I think we are talking in general terms here, about a specific group of bar girls, at least I am, and am trying to address certain issues and topics that come up...I think it is natural to moralize about this type of question to a point. Non of us here is above anything, or worthy of the high moral ground here, the girls sell, we buy, plain and simple, we are same same... all morality aside I think the question, at least in my case is why a certain group of these girls don't leave the business when presented with a chance? Does Sponsorship play a role in keeping these girls in the game? I think yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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