Why shell out "sponsor" a BG!

[riotiger]

Mailuk -

 

Great Post! :bow:

 

You wrote:

__________________________________________________________

 

"There is a lot of fun to be had as a sponsor if the girl you sponsor keeps your interest. You pay her, she keeps up the drama and the stories and excitement. There is nothing like it. The phone calls, the "I miss you so much it hurts please come see me now now" , the questions she screams at you or you at her: 'WHY YOU NOT ANSWER YOUR PHONE!'

 

This is money well spent. It is not a waste of frigging money. If you can get a beautiful stunner in farangland who is crazy then you?ll do it (at least for awhile) if for no other reason then its sanuk mak. And you?ll have to pay the restaraunt check and the drink check and who knows what else. Its worth it! You gotta have some fucking fun sometimes..."

_____________________________________________

 

This is actually a great defense of sponsoring and a fifth reason proposed in this thread. And I thought that after 11 pages this post had run its course...a dead horse...I almost didn't check it again this morning...

 

I just reveiwed the entire thread, and the arguments put forth as to why farangs sponsor BG's were:

 

1) in the mistaken assumption that they are "saving" the BG on the road towards a relationship or on the road to removing them from the p4p scene.

 

2) to ensure "first rights" during their trip. AKA "property rights" or "time share rights."

 

3) as an altruistic way to help them along in their difficult lives. A "gift of charity."

 

4) as a mentorship relationship and to have some sort of relationship with shared insights both ways.

 

Now we have a fifth -

 

5) as a way to keep his interest (sexually), provide stories and drama and excitement.

 

Of course one might argue that if you really want to keep your interest with stories and drama - watch a soap opera or read a good book. But that is not the same.

 

In the soap opera of sponsorship with a BG - YOU are in the soap opera. If she cheats on you and you find out - YOU are the one that gets upset instead of a character on the soap opera. And if you make up - YOU are the one that gets the passionate love scene!

 

And this reminds me, and this is the point of my reply here and where I will try and add my two cents, to an argument I read a long time ago, probably in the Economist, about state lotteries. State lotteries? Just bear with me please for a second... :: :: ::

 

I had always been intrigued by state lotteries, where the payouts are around 40 or 50%, as to why so many people seemed to consistently keep on spending money into these fundamentally "flawed investments." Maybe the article was on gambling and they compared paybacks - roulette 96% - craps - 85% (just guessing here - I do not gamble - probably why I do not sponsor BG's) - and lottery tickets - 50%.

 

Anyway the explantion was that a person who buys the lottery ticket often gets to dream about what they would do if they won. They do so as they buy it, during the week a couple of times as they drive to their boring jobs, and when they read the results. And this dreaming in and of itself is a reward. It is a nice fantasy that transports them away from their dull lives.

 

And I think that your rationale about sponsorship, the fifth in my order here, is in a way similar to this lottery ticket phenomenon.

 

Every man has a fantasy about having the perfect relationship - beautiful woman who is fun - does what you want - as a friend in Brazil once told me - men want a woman who is a diplomat and gracious in social settings, a fantastic loving mother, and a complete whore :: in the bedroom. And also beautiful. Of course this is all impossible. A strong woman who always bends to your will? Well, maybe the BG's offer a payout chance much less than a lottery ticket's, except of course on the beautiful and whore in the bedroom part, but those other skills can be learned, and in the end of course, as you have contact with her and the drama unfolds, you can dream about the ideal outcome.

 

Perhaps what I am describing above is a sixth reason, but I would prefer to subsume it under the fifth...it is part of what drives the entertainment...

 

So actually now I am reconsidering that maybe I should do some sponsoring :yay: ...but of course keeping expectations realistic. ::

 

Riotiger

[soongmak]

HT,

 

I am getting really tired of your continuos stereotyping of Thai prostitutes. Again and again you stress that prostitutes share some common personality traits without a shred of evidence. Why is it that you persist to show off your ignorance on the subject? If it is true, than certainly you can come up with some research supporting your point of view. More likely though you will rather brush this of laughingly and persevere your prejudices instead of really adding knowledge to the discussion.

 

If you were however inclined to research this subject you so authoritatively write about, you would find that there are no easy answers. There are no common personality traits found in several studies conducted to prostitutes. And when they did, they were always contradicted with other studies. More can be said about the circumstances why women enter the profession.

 

Several studies among non western prositutes revealed a prevalence of economic necessity, and for thai women several sociocultural factor could be addedlike the religious belief system, double gender standards, and women's responsibilites. (mensendiek, 1997)

 

>>>These girl's do, because the money is big, and the work is relatively easy. Period!<<<

 

Wow, another stunning generalization backed up with no arguments whatsoever.

 

Then why is it when Farley in 1998 studied a group of 475 prostitutes from 5 different countries including thailand, it was found that 2/3 suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Because the work is so easy? Get real, HT and face the facts. From this group, 73% were physically assaulted, 58% were sexually assaulted as a kid, and 62 % got raped with no significant differences between the countries.

 

You know why there is such a high occurance of violence among prostitutes HT? It is because they get stigmatized by people like you. Reasons for the violence perpetrated upon them given by the prostitutes in the Miller and Schwartz (1995) study, for instance, pertained to (stigma-related) attitudes, such as people often see prostitutes as unrapeable, people believe that no harm is done to prostitutes, prostitutes deserve to be raped, and all prostitutes are the same.

 

So do me a favour, either back up your statements with some facts or stop spouting ill-informed misogynistic crap about prostitutes.

[riotiger]

soonmak -

 

I just do not buy your arguments about prostitutes and want to defend HT here - in my honest opinion you are the one in the wrong - in spite of the fact that you have "studies" to support you.

 

My first point regards the first study.

 

You wrote:

 

"Several studies among non western prositutes revealed a prevalence of economic necessity, and for thai women several sociocultural factor could be addedlike the religious belief system, double gender standards, and women's responsibilites. (mensendiek, 1997)"

 

Economic Necessity? That so obvious that I find it difficult to believe you are posting it. Why do I go off to work - risk my ass with all the corporate politics and felonies going on in the modern corporations? Why do I as a male worker face higher rates of death from stress induced illness than women or other groups?

 

The answer? Economic necessity. Why does anybody work? Economic necessity...

 

We don't need some non for profit researcher to tell us this about Thai prostitutes.

 

Also please keep in mind the context of all the comments by HT - we are talking about BG's and sponsorship of BG's - and in particular about sponsorships where the men are interested in pulling BG's out of the p4p scene - and where they are fooled into thinking that their sponsorship money is actually going to be a step towards a relationship and removing them from the bar scene. So when HT is making these comments about BG's it is in that context.

 

I am sure that HT would not be in this thread at all if he was against all prostitutes in and of themselves - he is just against relying on them and trusting them for anthing other than a ST or LT engagement - which is what this entire thread is about.

 

You wrote in your second study:

 

"Why is it that when Farley in 1998 studied a group of 475 prostitutes from 5 different countries including thailand, it was found that 2/3 suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?"

 

Well I have some questions about this study. First I want to know about how this sample was selected - I mean did they select girls from the Beach Club or Happy A Gogo in Pattaya or did they go to some low end Thai only brothel in the middle of nowhere? And how about the looks of the girls - were they getting high end or low end girls? What were these girls charging - 2000 Baht? 100 Baht? And the country split - what were from where - and we are talking about Thailand here - the farang scene - not Bangladesh where there are areas according to posts in the World Sex Guide where prostitutes - lots of them - go for 2 dollars.

 

Also about this so called "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder." We live in a society now driven by the pharmaceutical companies to push more and more drugs on us. New syndromes are being invented all the time to rationalize and get insurance companies to fund drug sales.

 

What about the punters who sponsor BG's to find out that they were not the only one - but that there were three other sponsors from different countries - do they suffer from "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?"

 

How exactly did Farrel define this syndrome and how did he measure this?

 

Also about this Farrel - I don't suppose that he is working towards some sort of a World Bank grant to help save prostitutes by donating funds to pay for their psycic rehabilitation - is he? How much money is in it for him? I want to know more about this Farrel guy - who is he - where does he work - who funded the study - and what is he doing now?

 

When you have that information then please send it in for review. My guess is that it will all be very suspect - funded by some sort of non profit organization that gets donations worldwide to "save the prostitutes" of the world, or something like that...

 

Until then, please avoid partially flaming members like HT.

 

And please come off your high horse with your "studies." This whole board is about real life experiences...that is its essence...of course HT is basing his opinions on real life experiences...

 

What experiences have you had that lead you to believe what you think is true?

 

Riotiger

[Guest lazyphil]

Quite alot of my Mrs former work friends at Toshiba have sent pictures of themselves to us here to show blokes back here to try and hook them up with a falange hubby, seems a bit unfair she does all the risk taking meeting me and now they want the easy route to the west (some are quite foxy though )....my mrs is the trailblazer from that old circle of friends ::

[soongmak]

I just do not buy your arguments about prostitutes and want to defend HT here - in my honest opinion you are the one in the wrong - in spite of the fact that you have "studies" to support you.

 

It is always the same. You bring up some formal research and instead of refuting the evidence presented by showing some 'studies' that may support your point of view, people rather rely on anecdotal evidence that is simply gathered to support their POV.

 

The studies I quoted came from an article writen by Ine Vanwesenbeeck, a dutch scientist who researched sex studies published in the 1990's. It was published by the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex. I have no doubt that you can find better resources of information. If you would bother to read the article though, you would find how surprisingly ambiguous the information stemming from sex research is. Now if people whose job it is to research this still don't know what drives prostitutes in general, what makes HT such an astute observer that he is in the know? I can tell you he isn't. He is simply prejudiced and doesn't have an open mind when it comes to prostitutes. As for me, I really don't know what drives these women. I do refrain from making harsh judgements on their character, simply because I lack the insight.

 

I simply ask HT to do the same, or support his POV with at least some evidence. My guess is that he will, just as you, refrain from doing so, while putting down these women at the same time. ::

[Moderator]

OFF TOPIC WARNING!

 

This thread is starting to go too far off topic. Please stick to the subject at hand. If the thread becomes embroiled in ?off topic? subjects or turns into a personal debate the thread will be closed. Don't use this thread to settle previous differences. If you have any personal issues to resolve, please do it through Personal Message (PM). Please do not let personal disputes and ongoing debates from other threads ruin this thread and cause the Board Moderator to close the thread. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

-The Board Moderator-

 

p.s. This warning is not directed to any one member posting in this thread but is just a reminder to all to try to keep this thread on topic and to please not turn this good thread into a personal slinging match. There have been a couple of mild flames here but the members involved have been decent enough to apologize for their flames and so far have kept this lengthy thread going very nicely. Keep it civil gentlemen.

[BelgianBoy]

HIGH THAIED said:

In the end, a sponsor is just promoting the cycle. Period! You're doing nothing more, but reinforcing the idea that it's good to fuck numerous farang to obtain maximum $$$$. There is nothing more to be read into it for them. You are a part of the money train, and as such, are nothing more than a valuable commodity, but which can be replaced at any time, and often are.

 

Truly pulling a girl out is another story alltogether. But this thread is about 'sponsorship'. I stilll maintain it's a bad idea. For both parties involved. How many suckers have heard "I tired of fuck farang, and want start beauty shop". ??????????

 

It's just a new play on the "family buffalo die" theme. It's throwing money down a dark hole, and nothing more.

 

Honestly..........time to wake up guys.

 

HT

 

HT,

 

Fully agree.

Why would any BG in her right mind trust any whoremonger ( where did they meet in the first place ???) and rely only on the income from one guy.

Then again, usually sponsorship is mostly too low to compensate incomes anyway.

 

BB

[Old Hippie]

O.k. using the lottery analogy, I do see a point to it all, the drama, the fun of the phone calls, emails, sms...it all is fun...but costly in money and emotion, so I would still say no.

 

Regarding the lazyness low ambition comments here....while Might hold that SOME CAREER BAR/P4P girls enter the life out of laziness, I would argue that some of the girls once in the life approach it as a job, take it seriously, and really hustle to make money...Sadly, nmost career P4P girls I know, don't play the game right and have little to show at the end of their careers...

 

Regarding the economic factors that "force" them into the life...that doesn't account for the equally as poor women (the majority maybe) who never enter into P4P...So I would say personality does play into it, and each person's case is really different...just my opinions...

[riotiger]

soongmak -

 

Yes we have been getting off topic here. This board is about real people exchanging ideas about real experiences in farang / Thai relationships, nightlife, language, etc.

 

It is really a small area and there are no researchers doing it, and general sex research seems to me a little dangerous to try and apply - i.e. potentially off topic.

 

The issue that got us here in this thread has been about BG's lying to falangs to hook them into a sponsorship. This is one of the five main reasons proposed as to why some guys sponsor BG's.

 

As to the deceipt implicit in these BG's hooking in some falangs, some posters tend to forgive the BG's for this behavior, seeing them as victims forced to behave as they do, others do not. This can lead to positive or negative comments about BG's. It is in this context that we must view any posts above.

 

I just read the article you referred to above by the sex researcher, and the article supports opinions expressed by HT and others on this board negative to the BG's - i.e. that they are not victims but willing participants and free to morally decide their own behavior.

 

Here is a quote from the conclusion of the article which criticizes studies like the ones you quoted:

 

"...the literature about prostitution is still much more about sex, notably sexual victimization and risk, than it is about work. The groups most researched are the ones that are also the most vulnerable and to whom a victim status most applies (i.e., groups who do not only work sex but for whom additional problems, such as economic hardship, victimization, homelessness, and drug abuse shape their daily realities)."

 

The article goes on:

 

"Many researchers still study or feature only street workers. Negative findings among these groups, in terms of victimization, risk, and unwell-being are, nevertheless, often presented as a feature of sex work per se. Thus, the association between prostitution and misery prevails."

 

And regarding the Farley Study - that you used as evidence of the victimization of prostitutes:

 

"Although this study is clearly revealing, it is a pity that the authors persist in putting forward prostitution per se as a hazard to the psychological well-being in their samples, not the specific victimizing experiences and negative circumstances that were explicitly documented in this study. Nor do they reflect upon the specificity of their sample (again, almost exclusively street prostitutes)."

 

I rest my case. This study has nothing to do with the farang scene in BKK.

 

Riotiger

[Guest]

Wow....quite a thread so far!

 

Soongmak...I'm not trying to paint the picture that all bg's are bad people. They are in the business of selling themselves. And in doing so, will tell you whatever you want to hear, to make the sale. You will never hear about their Thai bf, or about the guy she fucked last night. It just not condusive to the image she khows she must create for you, to have you want her.

 

To do so, would be in the order of believing everything a used car salesman tells you. Or a new car salesman, for that matter.

 

Resources? My resource is spending many hundreds of hours talking to Thai prositututes that know I will never 'pull' them. And as such, have no alterior motives to lie about their situation, and their lives. And with every single one, the brass ring is to hook some farang sucker into sending her money every month. That is the goal. What is so hard to understand about that? It doesn't matter what brought them there. I'm only commenting on their objective. Can anyone, in good concience, deny this? If you do, it's time to sit on a barstool next to one, and find out what's really going on.

 

They go to work every day to sell themselves, and hope for a customer to buy them. Better yet, is to hook a customer who will send them free money every month. What could be better than that?

 

I've never said that all bg's are bad, simply because I've never thought that. I fully realize that some are forced into the industry by family, and others. I truly adore some of the girls there. But I also understand what their goal is, no matter why they are there.

 

Is true of all? Each has her own story. And of course, many want out of the industry. And very few I know, like what they do. But the question is sponsorship. And I can only repeat what I said before.....Throwing $$$ at a Thai prostitute is a bad idea, unless really comitted to pulling her out, and fully understanding all, what that will entail.

 

A Thai bg goes to work everyday, with an agenda, and a goal in mind. Not understanding that, is what gets a lot of guys into trouble.

 

Just my opinion.

 

HT