Why shell out "sponsor" a BG!

[thalenoi]

HIGH THAIED said:

><<Jesus HT, where have you been lately?<<<

 

I've been right here, and I'm not buying into your premise that all bg's are improvished. That is total bulshit. Honesty.........wake up and start smelling the coffee.

 

HT

 

How there, you said:

>> But is not so much an impoverished nation there, anymore>>.

 

So it is bullshit that there is poverty???? Only a few million out of 75 million people???

I live here and see poverty all around, every day, each hour.

 

This and the obligation to feed and house the parents is part of the reasons why many, not ALL become BG's

 

My gf is sad she doesn not have a child, her insurance for the times coming when I will be dead....

[Old Hippie]

"...So does this mean, that like me, you are considering buying some lottery tickets and sponsoring a BG? Well at least something has happened after 13 pages of posts here..."

 

Riotiger,

 

Yes, I buy lottery all the time, even in LOS! Yes, the dream as I pass the signs on the way to work... Yes, did offer to sponsor a BG once, my beloved now gone Si Saket girl (SSG). She had made gestures she was interested, then refused, her reasons were vague and many, but I have my own thoughts as to why, mainly, I know her family, and also, I didn't meet her in the bar scene, so she always saw whatever we had as "something different, not same customer..." So well, she saved me a lot of cash, and maybe a bit of heart ache as well. I suspect she may rethink it all at some point when her current sponsor gets fed up and fucks off...Many of the girls don't realize they made the wrong/bad choice until it is too late...

[Old Hippie]

For the record, I have been burned (emotionally, not really financially) by more "good girls" than "Bad." Though, I really only once fell in deep with a girl from P4P. The cases I know, and know well, all the girls have Multiple sponsors, and each guy honestly thinks he is the only one.

 

The one I got really close to, SSG, has had at least 3 offers to get her out of P4P (which she claims she hates) but she doesn't go "...cannot go now...him special, but cannot marry now...have many things to do first, cannot quit now..." Always chasing that impossible dream, and pissing away opportunity for happiness in the process. Many of these girls (NOT ALL) are the same. Some girls I know did marry a sponsor they liked, but took money from the other guys until the other guys got wise and cut them off...

 

Regarding the negative comments about prostitutes here...well, we are discussing a topic that has a negative connotation to it, deceiving "sponsors." As I and many have stated, I think MOST guys (NOT ALL) sponsor because they think they have something special with a girl, and they are really stoping her from working. But I've said that enough...

 

As for the guys who sponsor girls "to help them out..." how long will you do so? What will the girls do when you stop sponsoring them? How do you know they are telling you the truth? We don't! Non of us ever really knows when ANYONE is telling us the truth. Same for all these expert researchers, they have no way of knowing if the story they are being told is true or not. To take anything as gospel in this world (P4P), is crazy in my book, to many factors involved, to much we/they don't understand. Bar girls lie, so do punters. Bargirls make bad decisions, so do punters, bar girls deceive, conive and manipulate, so punters...it goes on and on, and WE will never fully understand it all.

[Central Scrutinizer]

OH,

 

"Yes, did offer to sponsor a BG once, my beloved now gone Si Saket girl (SSG). She had made gestures she was interested, then refused, her reasons were vague and many, but I have my own thoughts as to why, mainly, I know her family,"

 

So you think the family was good or bad? I mean do you think she was saving you from them in 'sponsorship' and the baht vacuum they would have tried to create in your wallet?

 

"and also, I didn't meet her in the bar scene, so she always saw whatever we had as "something different, not same customer..."

 

Everything you tell me/us of SSG makes her sound like a great lass really. She refused to play the sponsorship game. Sounds like she really liked you a lot really, and didn't want to play you for your money.

 

"So well, she saved me a lot of cash, and maybe a bit of heart ache as well."

 

Sounds a decent sort of girl. Although the heartbreak still seems to be there OH. I'm really glad you didn't play you for a sucker. It's obvious you had very deep feelings for this woman. She could have used you badly.

 

"I suspect she may rethink it all at some point when her current sponsor gets fed up and fucks off..."

 

Quite possibly she will rethink this, and possible he will as well ... fuck off that is. But if and when this happens, what will you do? That is the question. How will you handle it if she wants to start seeing you again one day in the future?

 

"Many of the girls don't realize they made the wrong/bad choice until it is too late..."

 

This is so very true at times. There are many reasons behind this though. One must follow their heart, instinct, gut feelings, and financial needs as well. It's not a cut and dried single thing that women use to evaluate this stuff. Love is only a part of the whole, especially here in Thailand I feel.

 

I had a friend who had a lady here who truly loved him, but she had the sense to realize that he would be no good for her. Firstly he had a serious drinking problem. Secondly, she realized that he had other issues and would never marry her and take her home to the states. (She was a Massage Parlor lass. Extremely beautiful and a wonderful bit of fun and a joy usually to be around. A nice lady really.) But she could sense that he could never get his head around or over the fact she fucked guys for money. It never would have worked, and she ended up marrying a German guy she also had on the line as well. She seems happy now in Germany and is doing fine she says. I'm still in contact with her once a year. She always asks about my friend. I tell her she made the right choice, as my friend is in serious deep trouble with the bottle. And now none of the ladies in the bars will not even go near him, as he has a tendency to be rough and callous with the BG's. I no longer am friends with him as well. Alcohol ruins many a decent person. It's sad to see. He lives a miserable life now, loves no one, hates everything, and is no longer a person I want to be around. Vile, obnoxious and miserable. She made the right choice, even though I do think she did truly love him way back then. Plus he is a stingy bastard really. One of the type who runs around throwing money at everyone inappropiately to look the bigshot American (huge tips in bars and restaurants sometimes as much as the bill itself) then he tries to make up for it by being cheap with the ladies and blames everyone but himself when he has no money left to party with. Damned drunken pig-headed fool.

 

Don't know why I told that story. Except maybe to illustrate the fact that the women sometimes make bad choices, and sometimes can make good choices as well. Never pooh-pooh womens intuition. There is something to it I think. They sense things.

 

Personally I think SSG may have liked you too much to want to maybe hurt you badly in the future. They have a sense about these things. Much more so than most of us guys do.

 

Cent

[Old Hippie]

"...Everything you tell me/us of SSG makes her sound like a great lass really. She refused to play the sponsorship game. Sounds like she really liked you a lot really, and didn't want to play you for your money.

 

"So well, she saved me a lot of cash, and maybe a bit of heart ache as well."

 

Sounds a decent sort of girl. Although the heartbreak still seems to be there OH. I'm really glad you didn't play you for a sucker. It's obvious you had very deep feelings for this woman. She could have used you badly...."

 

I'd like to believe this as well...but who knows?

 

"..."Many of the girls don't realize they made the wrong/bad choice until it is too late..."

 

This is so very true at times. "

 

I should have added, so do Punters, Like your friend I pissed away a few good opportunities as well...mainly because I was/am an alcoholic, and I didn't want to drag these particular girls into my world...better now, and regretting it...

 

 

"...Quite possibly she will rethink this, and possible he will as well ... fuck off that is. But if and when this happens, what will you do? That is the question. How will you handle it if she wants to start seeing you again one day in the future?..."

 

Mai ru....

 

"...Personally I think SSG may have liked you too much to want to maybe hurt you badly in the future. They have a sense about these things. Much more so than most of us guys do..."

 

More less what she told me, I sort of believe it.

[riotiger]

Tomc12 -

 

You mentioned feeling that somehow contributors to this board have denigrated your sponsorship of a BG. In my opinion what you describe is very good stuff - positive for you and the BG.

 

The key questions for this thread were why do farang sponsor BG's, and aren't they stupid for doing so?

 

Having reviewed the thread, it seems to me that five reasons were presented as to why farang sponsor BG's:

 

1) in the (usually) mistaken assumption that they are "saving" the BG on the road towards a relationship or on the road to removing them from the p4p scene.

 

2) to ensure "first rights" during their trip. AKA "property rights" or "time share rights."

 

3) as an altruistic way to help the BG along in their difficult lives. A "gift of charity."

 

4) as a mentorship relationship and to have some sort of relationship with shared cultural insights both ways.

 

5) as a way to keep one's sexual interest, to provide stories and drama and excitement.

 

What you have described in your post is basically in category 4.

 

I don't think anybody denigrated anything about category 4. As far as I am aware, no one has criticised BG's in relation to sponsorship around category 4, or the farang in relation to category 4.

 

In fact, only around category 1 has there really been a heavy amount of criticism around BG behavior. And this got a little out of hand with shots fired both ways ...sometimes a real take-no-prisoner battle. I lost an arm. ::

 

Farang were criticised around category 1 only because it was thought they should know better.

 

No one ever criticized or denigrated any sponsor or BG behavior in relation to category 3, 4, and 5. And category 2 was only criticized in that it was unnecessary on the part of the farang.

 

Now I may be wrong, but at least that is my take on the entire thread...it seems to be winding down here...I know I am getting a little...

 

Riotiger

[Central Scrutinizer]

OH,

 

"For the record, I have been burned (emotionally, not really financially) by more "good girls" than "Bad." Though, I really only once fell in deep with a girl from P4P. The cases I know, and know well, all the girls have Multiple sponsors, and each guy honestly thinks he is the only one."

 

I have a friend who lives here in Bangkok that has been going the GTG route the past year or so. Mostly through the net for some reason. He's met a few that he had a relationship with so far. Every one of these lasses has turned out to be lying to him and cheating on him, all the while telling him he is the only one they are with, and on and on. All university grads with good and decent jobs in Bangkok for some big companies/schools. All with well to do middle class families and decent up-bringings and education and good quality of life. None are poor farm girls. None have worked the bars. All so far have been horrible liars and cheats. Hopefully he'll find a good one one day. But it isn't only the BG's who do these things. Some do, some don't. Same for the GTG's, as you've experienced yourself it seems.

 

It's amazing some of the things he's told me these supposedly GTG's are up to and what they are doing. There is a whole new culture arising through the internet, a whole new fashion and culture of lies and deceit and game playing. It's as bad as the bar culture, worse when you see where these girls are coming from and how privileged and well off their families are, and the opportunities these women have had and have.

 

Keeping this on topic, his form of sponsorship comes in the way he helps them in their lives, through his intelligence, education, connections and willingness to help their careers and educations. He writes their resumes for them, and helps them get better positions or new and better jobs. He puts them in contact with people who can help their careers as well. Or helps them choose what course they should be taking to further their degrees and education. He gives them no money, but helps them tremendously, much in a mentorship way really. But still a form of sponsorship I think. They are always better off then when they first met him. And yes, he does bed them, as he is looking for a GF or mate. They've all let him down sooner or later so far. Cheated, and lied to him.

 

Just goes to show you it's not just the "bar culture" where this shit is happening. It is there in all levels of society, and not just in Thailand either. Find a good one and hang on to her, or just P4P and have fun until you do, if you want to that is.

 

Cent

[Zorro]

Riotiger said

I admire this attitude and am envious of your skill. Of course I do regard a BG's profession as a character flaw, as these girls have no doubt crossed an ethical line in deciding to enter their profession. But my feeling is that I am there with them, and hence have sunk to their level ethically while I am there. But that doesn't mean that I should believe what they say, or have any obligation to consider a long-term relationship with any of them.

 

Thais are very good at compartmentalising their lives.

You need to look a little bit past the charade and facade of the bargirl persona to have a better idea of the true nature of the girl and not just the one that is on show as a bargirl.

I agree that you shouldn't belive everthing that they say or anyone else for that matter. Let's not restrict this theme to bargirls.

You certainly don't have to consider a long tern relationship with a bargirl and i think given the likelihood of success you would be wise not to.

 

You said

Well in my opinion those that prey on the emotionally weak should be criticized all the more. So I do not really understand where you are coming from here. Basically you seem to be saying that the farang who are deceived had it coming because they were weak? Or that the Thai BG who preys on these farang is actually saving them from being preyed on by a Western woman? In my opinion this is the only part of your post that does not make any sense.

 

Yes preying on the emotionally weak is not the trait of an upstanding citizen but i do believe it is the nature of human beings to take advantage of the financially or emotionally weak....survival of the fittest and all that.

My point about western women is really a bit of a throw away line. They would probably lose more money to a western woman that a Thai woman.

 

In general i think you attitude reflects mine to a certain extent.

I agree that looking for love via a working girl is fraught with danger and that it is better to use the services and to move on. However there is always the danger for those that are heavily involved as a punter in the scene that one girl will come along that rings your bell and you will feel she is different . This does seem to happen to most long term punters at some stage along the way .

[riotiger]

Tomc12 -

 

You quoted me as follows:

 

"As I said I treat them with respect....I simply would not believe anything they said."

 

And added:

 

"Now that is an interesting definition of respect."

 

Let me try and explain.

 

By respect I mean that when dealing with a BG, and I don't do so often but I do, I always treat them the way I would want to be treated myself. Like a gentleman I open the door for them - treat them like a guest in my apartment - offer something to drink or eat - listen to them and let them finish their sentences - talk about things that are interesting to them - I let her know that I think she is beautiful and if I am with her then she is - when we make love it is making love and I use all the skill I have learned in some 300 sexual experiences to make sure it is as enjoyable as possible for her.

 

I have found that using this approach I almost always get a true GFE. The girls always want to stay LT, and offer to repeat if I want, and also sometimes I get freebies later on, which I never accept but I am thankful that they were offered.

 

By not believing anything they say, I am talking about not believeing even most basic statements they make to which they might not be telling the truth.

 

For example, she says she is 23. I think - she might be 23 or she might not be 23.

 

She says she doesn't have a boyfriend. I think - she might not have a boyfriend, but then again she might have a boyfriend.

 

She says she wants to leave the bar scene - I think she might want to leave the bar scene, but she might not really want to leave the bar scene.

 

Note that I do not stop the conversation and call her a liar. That would be disrespectful. I simply go on talking with her knowing that what she told me may or may not be true.

 

Lets look now at a more advanced example.

 

I am sponsoring a BG - send her 20K Baht/month - this has been going on for two months. It is understood between us that she is to use this money to stop working at the bar and start enrolling in a school. I call every night at different times. One Friday night I call around 8PM at home - no answer - also not on her cel phone - then I call again at 10PM - same. Then at 1 AM - nothing. At 3AM she answers and says she was with a girlfriend. I think - she might have been with a girlfriend, but she could also have been out banging some farang.

 

So this is what I meant when I said above that I do not believe anything they say.

 

It is perhaps odd, but I have been lied to so many times and have seen so much deceipt in these developing countries that unfortunately this has become the only way to cope. I don't consider it disrepsectful, just a necessary adaptation to my environment.

 

Also please note that I am not offering this up as exemplary in any way. And I respect other approaches to BG's. I only offered this explanation because I was replying to Zorro's open question about how someone could be so negative about BG's and still be a punter.

 

I hope this explains it.

 

Riotiger

[Guest]

tomc12 said:

"As I said I treat them with respect....I simply would not believe anything they said". Now that is an interesting definition of respect.

 

I am amazed by all the posters who think it is insightful to inform a sponsor that a BG lies. What? a non-BG doesn't? Before I first stepped foot onto Thai soil, I had read many articles on the P4P scene. So I think it is a mistake to assume that all people who sponsor a BG do so out of gullibility. To try to explain to someone like SkiBum why a person would sponsor a BG is difficult, for his needs are emcompassed by food, water, and shelter. I could say that even Neanderthal man would have included clothing, but that might be construed as a flame and that is not my intention. I have a need for love, for friendship, for beauty; a need to believe in the ultimate decency of humanity. I describe them as needs because I don't think a person can develop their full potential without them, at least I can't.

I decided to sponsor a BG that I met because I liked her and wanted to help her out. I knew all about the information/opinions presented in this thread beforehand, but I still wanted to do it and it was a fascinating experience. Albeit it was one woman's perspective and a BG at that, still there was so much I learned about Thai culture, Buddhism, family dynamics, etc. in addition to helping out a person I cared about to change her life.

So for all those posters who are content to just shag whores, be my guest. For those who are happy about financial straits that put more girls into play, enjoy. But please don't denigrate those of us who are more curious about the person behind the smiling face and/or believe they can be more or do more with their lives.

 

"But gee, don't you know they tell lies?" Give me a break.

 

 

 

TOMC12-

 

Really your quite wrong here: "To try to explain to someone like SkiBum why a person would sponsor a BG is difficult, for his needs are emcompassed by food, water, and shelter. I could say that even Neanderthal man would have included clothing, but that might be construed as a flame and that is not my intention."

 

Thus, I must explain to you the difference in needs and wants: Needs are something you CANNOT live without! Wants are ANYTHING else. You are not able to survive on earth without.....i'll say it again.....Food, water and shelter! It's not a relative concept! My needs and your needs are ALLWAYS the same... Clothes are not a need you can live without them. Yes, are wants do differ...this you are very right on! Everything else...well, to use your words... "anything else might be construed as a flame and that is not my intention"

 

SkiBum