pattaya127 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 besides, who is "JACK" Chirac? :D :D this world is dangerously becoming anglicized < thai royalty allusion deleted Moderator > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 ALHOLK said:Hi! Although I have never been a francophile I must admit that France did take a stand against Bush's plan to invade Iraq and grab their oil resources. I would have been proud of my own country if they had taken a similar view. UK government has always showed more loyalty towards the US's interests that toward its European partners Quite so and they have never got anything out of it. regards ALHOLK Chirac's "stand" wasn't noble, more a self-serving no-brainer to boost his flagging popularity ratings (which were particularly low at the time). Americans, particularly Republicans, have never been particularly popular among the French. Attacking the old enemies of the US and Britain is an easy popular stance to take. Chirac's ratings went up. It was a very easy move to make - don't commit troops who could die while siding against a country which is traditionally heavily disliked among your colleagues and countrymen. You could argue that Blair was braver - he had to face a lot of flak because a lot of old socialists among his Labour party hate America under a Republican president. He also had to face the prospect of more criticism as British nationals died, a bigger risk of attacks against Britain for its stance, and knew he faced a general election soon. Who's braver? As for the UK showing "loyalty" towards the US or being its poodle - well, it's more a case of having common interests through history (we have more-or-less the same institutions - system of law, etc). "Never got anything out of it"? Example: We got a lot more help from America during the Falklands conflicts than from any of our European "allies". (In fact, no one else helped us at all, as I remember.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 pattaya127 said:besides, who is "JACK" Chirac? :D :D this world is dangerously becoming anglicized, soon we will have < thai royalty allusion deleted Moderator > Jacquess deserve all they get. Sometimes it seems like the head of every European institution is called "Jacques". Jacques Santer, Jacques Delors, Jacques Attali, Jacques George... You're no fan of Jacques Chirac anyway and neither is most of France. He's only held up by joint dislike of US free-market capitalism! I saw a newspaper article which quoted a French diplomat back in the 70s as saying "France will only be part of Europe while Europe is France" and it seems that's what is happening now. And why isn't Bangkok called Krungtheep by the rest of the world anyway? Now, they've got something to complain about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 "Although I have never been a francophile I must admit that France did take a stand against Bush's plan to invade Iraq and grab their oil resources. I would have been proud of my own country if they had taken a similar view. " Alhok, it seems that besides France's deepest love for human beeings and need of harmony between them , it had a big econmic interest avoiding the war. I remember a french report where the tricky journalist kept the camera on after he had told the french ambassador to irak it was closed. Ambassador then worried loudly about french vested interests in Irak threatened by any american invasion. US politicians are obviously pouring lots of outrageous lies in everybody's ears daily, but so do the french - to those who listen at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 to those who listen at least -------------------------------- wisest thing said so far. Who cares what Jaco says, he will be out in 2 years, and the world will keep turning, same with georgie, and..... Antoine Blaire, , eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Hi! Chirac's "stand" wasn't noble, more a self-serving no-brainer to boost his flagging popularity ratings To be fair his stand was probably affected by the fact that French and also Russian oil companies had legal oil consessions in Iraq. These consessions were voided by the American invasion and given to crimalnal American companies and a few Brittish companies as well. Attacking the old enemies of the US and Britain is an easy popular stance to take. Why are the enemies of the US and the UK the same, your empire is since long gone. We got a lot more help from America during the Falklands conflicts than from any of our European "allies". At the time of the Falkland war I worked with an English bloke. His opinion was that the US were not supporting the UK but were afraid of disrupting the trade with south american countries. How many Americans were killed in the war? How many US navy vessels were involved in the combat? As a Europen I didn't like Margret Thacher much as did not many of the English. This does does not mean that I don't believe that the UK doesn't have the rigth to defend it's teritories. regards ALHOLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 "Attacking the old enemies of the US and Britain is an easy popular stance to take" I didn't phrase that quite right. I meant that the old enemies of France are Britain and (later) the US and so it's very popular among the French to attack them. Your mate's welcome to his theory but I think by far the most likely reason the US gave Britain secret help because they sympathised at a very basic level. Reagan and Weinberger saw an ally sharing the same ideas, which was being attacked, supported the idea of defending against aggression by a dictator and gave the orders to supply secret logistical aid. The victory helped rid Argentina of nasty dictatorial rule by General Galtieri and turned it into a democracy yet the Argentinians don't seem too grateful towards us! A bit like a certain country in Europe nowadays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 Nationalism is a stupid thing. I dislike Chirac I do not agree with his political positions I dislike Blair too but what disgusts me more is the fact that UK-Nederlands-Denmark, some of the richest european countries refused to let a penny as in the same time the 10 new european countries, which are the "poorest" , agreed to give up some financial claims............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_66_UK Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 I was wandering how long it take for WW2 to appear :D My take on the UK position is that in relation to the constitution (which I haven't read!) is that Europe would have a single Foreign Minister - the British Govt can NEVER accept having foreign policy ruled from Brussels............. as before handing it over we would first have the problem of getting it back from the Colonials :: I got no real problem with the position of the French or the UK, just that I do not beleive that either should have to be the only way forward for the EC / EEC / EU. I think this will have to be the basis of the compromise (next year?) as Britain can afford to wait - Europe running out of money would not be good for the UK, but IMHO a complete disaster for those using the Euro, unless this is some sort of "cunning plan!" to devalue the Euro. (BTW I never understood how a currency including Italy and Greece could ever be trade at more than the Dollar :: - Please DON'T anyone explain the reasons here :D). On a more serious note, I never liked the name "European Union". I prefer "The Confederate States of Europe" - lots of room on the Flag for stars representing each country Colonel Bogey as a national anthem would also be quite cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 But then, what did good old Jack say to upset our usually mild tempered LazyPhil fellow ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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