Asking for money - twice

[Old Hippie]

Sending money is always a problem. I have only done so when I could verify the claim. But then I sent via friend who paid the school directly. I have also taken a girl or two to the doctor over the years, small cost. I guess you have to decide what the relationship is, and where you think it can go, and then decide. It's always hard, because even when you pay the school directly, or the clinic or whatever, you still feel like they are conning you. Price we pay I guess...

[SoiledCowboy]

Now isn't that a coincidence..............? I just received an email from the "girl of my dreams" asking for money, small nonetheless but hey, you've got to start somewhere!

I said to myself when arriving back home, that if the first email contained the word money then at least I know where I am and if the email did not contain the word money, then perhaps, just perhaps....... well you know!?

I was expecting the former to happen, it did, I bear no ill will, hell, good luck to them, tough job in a tough city. I sometimes feel that they simply do not understand most genuine farang and that it may be our own doing, we mostly love being with them and treat them very well by their home standards that they really think the party never ends, I guess some degree of self-deception is needed for some to do the work.

[think_too_mut]

quote:

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Originally posted by cardinalblue:

It sounds like a half-way decent bar girl and request. Rent might be a tad too high but should try to verify it.

I am all for helping her out (school, training, etc) only if it is towards bettering or improving herself in the marketplace.

Figure it out whether it is cheaper for you to stay with her (really your place if you pay) vs paying for a hotel every time you come here. Do the simple math. She raised the issue in her letter. Respond to it.

My big question is she still is working the bar meaning she is entertaining customers at night for money. Your answer will determine whether you are just another meal ticket in a parade or she actually views you as something more. Outside of you, where is her income coming from and how much is it? Has she gone over her expenses with you? What do want from this girl and what do you expect from her towards you?

Cardinalblue

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The day I started this thread I sent her an email raising concerns similar to what I did here.

And she replied, in her own words, I can recognize that, in a letter almost 2 pages long.

Her response when confronted with arguments sounded quite honest, well founded and, only at moments, even emotional.

She also said that the Internet cafee staff translated what she had given them so the final result was sent without her reading it.

Well, she did pass the school test on 27th and scored a place in the class. Due to high demand, the school oferred extra days for testing. She did not communicate that back to me. Two weeks ago I asked her to take a more expensive course, telling her I was going to pay for that. (an "incredible" amount of 80US$ for a 6 weeks course at American School of English). So, she had every right to ask for that money.

Cardinalblue, I am glad you share my beliefs about BGs (and everyone else's) education. This English course is her second one, assumes she knows "abc" and some basic stuff. If she goes well and is interested in advancing through education, I would be more than pleased to help her out.

Apartment: She is not taking it. In her words:

"

I told you in last time that you knew about the price and charge I don't like it then I find a new one,it very nice in everything and near sky-train station,it comfort to go anywhere.I tell you because I want you to know about my apartment but don't want you pay it for me. My idia is when you come back Bangkok you can sit or sleep or relax at my apartment. Because the room is big and have furniture better than the room i stay now.

"

CardinalBlue, yes, I went through her monthly expenses. Some board members may find it interesting:

2000 for her share of the room/electricity/water/phone bill. And the room is in a clean security building, with lift. Parquetry floor, private, clean bathroom.

1500-2000 for food. She eats one meal a day, at around 4:30pm. Does not drink.

1000 for clothes. I was surprised but she pointed how much pieces of clothes she had on were - 80B, 100B, 110B. She also knows where to find them.

500 Taxi when she has no time to ride bikes or buses. There are more taxis but they are covered by extra "taxi money".

500 Motor bike taxi (I can't convince her not to use them).

1000 for her family. That's where I got shocked - only 1000?! Like a child, she said "Sometime 1000 not enough".

How often not enough? "2-3 times a year, they need 1500-2000 ". These folks upcountry can really run on a clean air only I thought.

200 Cosmetics - another surprise. I guess, 3 girls living together buy large/value packs of toaletry.

So, it's between 7000 and 8000B per month. She can't predict how much she can earn but it is more than that. What happens to the money that's left after her expenses are met? "In the bank" she said.

One day, we were walking past a Bangkok Bank branch and I asked her if she was proud of her savings. Still had had some suspicions that she is like other BGs I met before - just spend the money on unecessary things or turn it over to their TBFs to smoke and drink it away.

She hesitated a little but eventually stuck her card into the ATM, printed the last 10 transactions and the total. Almost 100K Baht of savings over 9 months, a steady stream of 8-12K Baht per month.

Yes, she is stil working bar, I have never asked her to stop. But in two months I might try. That would be 11 months since she's started.

(Not sure if anyone wants to know nor wheather it matters, she's 26, I'm 41, surfer, slim)

In summary: I think I might have overreacted. Maybe all the horror stories we can find on this and other boards can make us a bit paranoid. But, hey, being too cautious with the browne sweeties should not kill a man!

[think_too_mut]

For those interested, here is an update:

I rang her yesterday, she was pissed off a bit and it looked like she was keen to revisit this "not thrustworhy" issue when I meet her again in two months.

The exam - she did well - 82 of 100 points.

She also asked for a book, knew the ISBN!

Contrary to what I said at the top of the thread, money is on it's way. I left her a key card so money deposited here is available to her right now.

Don't know about you guys, but when I see somebody like her trying to do something to change her position, I simply break down.

[Guest]

What are you thinking, where are you going with this. What is your plan with this girl. You are being use. If you dont see that, I dont know what to say to you. If you enjoy sending her money that is fine but remember this, your not the only dumb farang she is using.

[Flame removed - KS]

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Khun Sanuk ]

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

Nasty_1, that first sentence was out of line. You may disagree with Lazaro, but there was no need for that comment.

I had better not see flames like that again. Consider yourself warned.

Sanuk!

[Old Hippie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lazaro:

For those interested, here is an update:

 

...Contrary to what I said at the top of the thread, money is on it's way. ...

Don't know about you guys, but when I see somebody like her trying to do something to change her position, I simply break down.

---

Well, at least you made a decision, and will see it through. I guess time will tell if you made the right decision. Monitor the situation, and then decide. Even if you don't have a permanent relationship with this girl, if you can help her, why not? If nothing else, your intentions are good! Hope it works for you!

[Guest]

quote:

---

Don't know about you guys, but when I see somebody like her trying to do something to change her position, I simply break down.

---

You're not the only one--and they know it.

The dumb ones ask for money in the first letter. Later they learn and make "reasonable" requests. Even later they learn that all they have to do is allude and infer--and if you're jai-dee you will simly break down.

Having said that, I've been tempted. I always ask myself two questions:

1) What do I expect out of this for myself?

2) What is the chance that she'll use the money to better herself?

[think_too_mut]

This time of year many people send cheques to charity organizations, myself included. Willing to help anonymous children in Africa and elsewhere.

In adition, I wrote a 80$ one and gave it to a girl I know, the girl that makes me fly 9 hours to see her, with whom I have great time, the girl that wants to improve her education and who scored 82% at the exam.

(Gee, this is completelly different to what I started this thread with...)

nasty_1:

Even if we don't consider the cause, this kind of money is peanuts.

Do I think I am the only one she maintains contact with? No.

How do I know? She told me. About 3 more "quality" customers she emails with and gets repeat business from.

Do they send her money? No. Believe me, I know that for a fact.

[ranma500]

It maybe doesn't apply to this post, but it always amuses me that men are surprised when the girls want money.

Surely we all know why the girls are there. They are not there because they enjoy it. They are there because they want money.

Some have real, and sometimes tragic reasons for wanting money - to help family - to raise children etc. Others just want to save up enough money so that they won't have to worry about the future. Others simply don't want to work in the rice-fields or in a sweat-shop.

Unlike some other jobs which offer the promise of promotion, advancement, or a better future, there is no future for girls in the bar profession. So money is the only incentive.

I am not as cynical as some. I do believe that sometimes girls fall in love. But I also understand that they don't see why their income should suffer just because they love someone. And if someone loves them, why wouldn't he want to share his money with them?

I do believe there is a Buddhist style middle path that 'farang' can follow. I don't think it is terribly wise for guys to send money to a girl expecting that will buy some sort of fidelity or chastity, because they will usually be disappointed.

However, to pay $80 to a school for education seems like a more sensible and worthwhile investment. I would pay the school direct, just to be sure you know where it's going.

And if you're serious about this girl, why not suggest to her as an incentive that you will check with the school that she is attending, and if she works hard and attends regularly, you will contribute towards her apartment?

It is sadly true, I feel, that a contributing factor to the girl's choice of bar-girl work is sometimes the fact that they lack the dedication, energy, foresight and motivation to seek education and better employment.

Education is comparatively very cheap. Even $80 is only three or four 'long-times'. Why don't more girls invest some of their income into improving their prospects? I find this frustrating. Not many girls make much effort to (by our standards at least) 'better' themselves.

Bar-girls often act in a way that seems to us clearly not to be in their own long-term best interests.

If you paid the $80 dollar fees for education, there are still many girls who would simply get bored with the courses very quickly and not attend, letting the money go to waste.

Trying to 'help' the girls is often a sad and frustrating business, and the chances of success are minimal. But I also don't think this should discourage one from trying. Everyone deserves a chance. If they choose not to take that chance, or make the best of it, that is their right.

We can only try to understand, try not to become imbittered, and try to do the same again.

ranma500