Long Gun Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 Ranma That is a superb post, mate, which I really don't see how anyone could criticise. Definitely one for my 'cut out and keep' file for when someone else finds themself facing the same dilemna. From where I am standing it is a shame that more people don't share your perspective, including some who have contributed to this thread. Lazaro A dignified response, well done! As you say, to you the 'risk factor' here is minimal and you would seem to have everything to gain. Your friend really does sound like a potential winner and you obviously care a lot about her, given the amount of time you have chosen to spend with her and the alternatives available. Keep us posted on the progress of this one please, my money is on a happy ending. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiledCowboy Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 What I often wonder about is that this event, ie the ask for money, must have occured a million times to a million of us farangs who have all experienced that emotional, as well as the obvious, liason with a girl. Playing Devils' Advocate, and it may or may not reflect my opinion, if giving money from afar was such a fruitful thing to do for the girls, then where are the countless masses telling us that mostly, go ahead, it is legitimate and effective in aiding the girl that you care about and wish to help out in modest ways. Where are they? I don't see too many. Those that did and saw nothing for their generosity would probably not wish to advertise that they did so, hence we don't hear from them either. Surely someone must have returned to LOS and their girl AND seen that indeed the money(or fees paid etc etc) was used as described for the greater good of the girl. Of course there are success stories to be told as well as disaster stories of much money wasted, both will regulary happen. One never knows the outcome 'til one tries, but it would be comforting to know just how long the odds really are, or short as the case could be. I think that we may never know the answer therefore I think that there is no right or wrong, black or white, this is truly a case of "if it feels good, do it" and you will probably be alright, hell, most of us here are not dribbling fools, we have made mostly right judgement calls in our life up to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 Hi Nasty_1, You really have by the looks of things chosen the correct handle or maybe it's just a bad day for you. where below in Khun Sanuks message are you threatened? Other than telling you what is acceptable behaviour I don't see a threat against you!!! Hi, Nasty_1, that first sentence was out of line. You may disagree with Lazaro, but there was no need for that comment. I had better not see flames like that again. Consider yourself warned. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 Nasty_1, if I may, the only threat made to you by (read carefully) the fellow who runs this board at his own expense is to terminate your further participation here if you can't control your language. And, for what it's worth, nobody respects you for having a potty mouth, nobody respects you for playing the bad-ass, and nobody is on your side. Best thing would be for you to offer a sincere and king-sized apololgy to your host, Khun Sanuk. Better still might be to abandon your username and come back with a new handle. Think it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 Hi, Nasty_1 had already send me the same post as a PM. I did not kick him off the board for that, yet when he posted it publicly... Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted December 6, 2001 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 quote: Originally posted by ranma500: However, to pay $80 to a school for education seems like a more sensible and worthwhile investment. I would pay the school direct, just to be sure you know where it's going. And if you're serious about this girl, why not suggest to her as an incentive that you will check with the school that she is attending, and if she works hard and attends regularly, you will contribute towards her apartment? It is sadly true, I feel, that a contributing factor to the girl's choice of bar-girl work is sometimes the fact that they lack the dedication, energy, foresight and motivation to seek education and better employment. Education is comparatively very cheap. Even $80 is only three or four 'long-times'. Why don't more girls invest some of their income into improving their prospects? I find this frustrating. Not many girls make much effort to (by our standards at least) 'better' themselves. If you paid the $80 dollar fees for education, there are still many girls who would simply get bored with the courses very quickly and not attend, letting the money go to waste. ranma500 What a superb post ranma500! Few comments: Paying school directly: no need the course will be still going when I am there next time. She knows it's easy to check on her. Contributing towards her apartment: No problem with that. I am using this course to let her demonstrate her will to be on the right track. If she is worth doing (I already think she is), I'll do her right. Lack of dedication, energy, foresight on her part: At least, she liked (and remembered, since April) my story of a cake and a recipe: if you get the recipe right, you can bake the cake whenever you want. With the cake itself, once you ate it, then what? Not knowing how to bake it again, some people would even f*** for more cakes! Although I was not doing anything spectacular there, she loved the way things and activities are in order and predictable around me. Girls getting bored with the course, letting the money go to waste: I think it's even more difficult than that. Just one thing - if she does not quit the bar, a customer wanting to take her to Pukhet for a week or so would make her drop out from the training. Well, maybe not only one customer but intermittant attendance of the training inevitably leads to a failure. That is the reason behind using this, by our standards inexpensive course for the exercise. Another one is that she had selected it as the "best available". Long Gun: I am on the same page - I think I can smell a potential winner in her. She has actually done several steps in the right direction. One or two more and I'll throw more of my might behind her. Now, she's been in the bar for 9 months. In two months it's gonna be 11. Although many people say it's too late if she quit yesterday, I think that, in this situation, if she is drawning, the depth is not important. 9 or 11 meters of water under her. And then, if she is a winner, a life jacket, warm blanket and a recipe become available to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2001 Report Share Posted December 6, 2001 Lazaro, It could be that I will be in los in 12 more days(yippee), and it could be that my crusty, jaded heart is warming as this and the "hellidays" approach....but whatever it is, I am truly touched by your story....and I really hope she works out for you.....I think a project such as you are undertaking has noble aspects, whatever the outcome, I think you can take pride in the efforts.....Chok Dee Mak Krup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savittre Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Lazaro, Very kind of you to help this lady out. Only time will tell!!!! Again, good luck!! Hope she's smart enough to make the most of this opportunity. Probably the best she's ever had, or will have. I'd like to ask you one thing, Lazaro, if you don't mind- How do you describe your relationship with this lady? Prostitute- Customer? Girlfriend- Boyfriend? Or somewhere in between? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 I value education for it's own sake, but of what real value is an education to a Thai BG? I'm not saying not to be generous with these girls, and I'm not saying I don't wish they had some decent alternative to selling their bodies. I'm not saying not to encourage them to better themselves and get out of the BG business. But the cost/benefit of an education for them just doesn't seem to be justified with the reality of life in LOS. Even if a girl was a very bright student and mastered English to near fluency, could she get a job as a secretary or hotel desk clerk, for instance? The reality is no. Even a waitress, security, or maid job in Bangkok now nearly univerally require a M3 level education at the least. If a girl has only P6, she would need to take 3 to 6 more years of public school or equivalent. And even university educated girls have a hard time finding a good paying, straight job. Technical/vocational training would be a more likely way to get a job, but many of these fields lead to low paying sweat shop type jobs. And even if a girl had completed M6 and a computer course or a hotel worker training course, she would still be up against the classist system in Thailand for anything beyond a maid or cook position. They are not going to hire an unsophisticated Isaan girl for a front office (or even back office) position. Thai men of means are not interested in marrying an Isaan girl because they would lower their social status, and because they don't find them atractive. So marrying well is usually not an option. So what are a rural TG's realistic job opportunities, with or without an education other than prostitution? 1)Low paying, dead end, sweatshop/factory/service type jobs 2)Nepotism. Join the family business, whatever that may be. 3)Entrepreneur. There are plenty of women out there supporting their families by peddling SOM TAM, or noodle soup. Have you noticed how many Isaan taxi drivers there are in BKK? This would certainly be time consuming hard work, but allows a certain degree of pride and independence. 4)Servant/maid. May have to put up with abuse for hard work and low pay Compare any of these to flirting/dancing/putting out for farang tourists for big bucks and you will find that most BG's are too ambitious or lazy to accept them, and this explains why so many Thais play the lottery with money they can ill afford, and why the overseas job brokers (many of them scam artists) make huge profits. [ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: luckyfarang ] [ December 08, 2001: Message edited by: luckyfarang ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 8, 2001 Report Share Posted December 8, 2001 Lazaro, Sending money is a tough call. But you seem pretty assured, so not a bad idea. Plenty of people send to charities to help faceless nameless people, often losing most of the money to greedy middlemen. So I see nothing wrong with a few bucks to someone you know, as long as you feel confident it is the right decision. I do agree with rama 500 when he says it might be best to pay the school directly, if that is feasible. Anyway, if nothing else, you have helped someone, so let it be noted with the karma point keepers! Jai-dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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