Two timers

[soongmak]

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! and don't misrepresent something I posted long ago! I had nothing to do with ratting anyone out to INS, and I resent you saying I did!

 

OH,

 

If you say you never had anything to do with it, I apologize to you for saying so. I take my words back.

 

Soongmak

[Zaad]

This conversation has taken a left turn and is now about "when to rat another person out".

 

When do we justify such action upon another, and when do we not?

This is a very fine line and obviously of different shades and shapes to us all.

 

Is she a friend? Is he? Has she done just enough financial damage? or emotional damage? Or do we just hate her for what she did or didn't do?

 

Under certain circumstances (very few btw) I would, eventhough I'm aware of the fact that doing so can be dangerous, but there are exceptions to everything in life. Needless to say people who choose to do so should be very tactical and careful.

[Old Hippie]

soongmak said:

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! and don't misrepresent something I posted long ago! I had nothing to do with ratting anyone out to INS, and I resent you saying I did!

 

OH,

 

If you say you never had anything to do with it, I apologize to you for saying so. I take my words back.

 

Soongmak

 

O.k. Cool, and Thanks!

[Old Hippie]

Zaad said:

This conversation has taken a left turn and is now about "when to rat another person out".

 

When do we justify such action upon another, and when do we not?

This is a very fine line and obviously of different shades and shapes to us all.

 

Is she a friend? Is he? Has she done just enough financial damage? or emotional damage? Or do we just hate her for what she did or didn't do?

 

Under certain circumstances (very few btw) I would, eventhough I'm aware of the fact that doing so can be dangerous, but there are exceptions to everything in life. Needless to say people who choose to do so should be very tactical and careful.

 

Zaad,

 

Great point! As one poster put it "Different rules for you..." No, Different rules for different situations...myself, I would only rat for revenge, or if asked directly...I would base my decision to do so based on the particular situation at that time. I would do so, full well knowing/accepting the potential consequences...

 

Some questions to ponder for the guys who said they would just rat a guy out...suppose you are married, and your female friend is married...now, suppose she was the one cheating? would you tell her to stop, or threaten to rat her out if she didn't? you already said you'd rat her husband out...what if your female friend wanted to cheat with you? would you rat her out? tell your wife? if not (to both of these questions) then why not...? Would you rat your sister out? where does the line begin and end?

 

As I said, different rules for different situations...NOT different rules for different people...

[Zaad]

Hippie,

 

where does the line begin and end?

 

As I said, different rules for different situations...NOT different rules for different people...

 

I only disagree with the last part of the quote. Well kinda, although I do think we're on the same page here.

I mean, not that it's justifiable, moral etc etc.. it's the fact that we ourselves choose our own rules, which means that my rules for a given situation may or may not apply to you or others on this board.

 

And I blame the different personalities onboard for that, let's not forget this important factor.

 

And that btw goes for most things in life. You have those who do as soon as they get the slimmest opportunity and those who need a rocket up their arse before considering the available options.

 

C'est la vie!

[AF16]

BSTaucer said:

AF16 said:

 

Dear Boy,

 

Let's start with this shall we? You wrote...

 

"Yes diffrent rules for you. On this BB you and others can call red flags and dump the bithc, but when someone would say to your wife 'hey red flag he fucks around' it's wrong because it fuck up _ Your _ life."

 

 

I should think the paramount difference is obvious indeed. Givng word on the girl who is lieing to your mate, may well SAVE him from further heart ache and financial loss or perhapes even ruin. In this senario, one party stands to benifit.

 

Yes it might save HIM, but it might be bad for HER. If you tell on him, it might save her, because having a husband cheating is both a dealbreaker and hurtfull for many.

 

It's more difficult to identefy with a Thai girl hooker than a falang male punter, but both have interests, and dealing with them as equals thier interests all other things equal should be equal.

 

In your senario of tattling like a little school girl, all parties stand to lose all, and no one will be the better for your having done so. But then one could argue that you did what you thought was right, and feel good about yourself for having done so. So one would then logically determine that it is indeed "ALL about you" with no concern for the other parties. Rather selfish on your part I should think.

 

In the poll I ran on the woman site 80 % would want to know, 8 don't know, 2 % other (would like the husband to tell), and 10 would not like to know.

 

In other words for the majorety it's in _ their _ interests to know. It might not be good news, but they want to know.

 

Me my self would like to know, and I would end the marriage the same day. It would suck big time, but I want to deal with my marriage as is.

 

What you say is that the 80% don't know their best interest and should be saved from the pain, a pain that comes from the husband cheating primarely, the fact most here seem to ignore.

 

 

Your statement of

 

"... 'hey red flag he fucks around' it's wrong because it fuck up _ Your _ life."

 

is indeed far off the board, for as a result of your squeeling, you shall indeed be "F****** up" the lives of all involved including those of you and your wife's. Your marrage may even suffer as a result. This arguement being raised by the others, (Who inceidently may have experience in this type matter, where as you do not) is not about the punter lad, it is about all parties involved, including you and your wife. You fail to grasp this simple concept.

 

No, if all women had said they prefer not to know it would be no problem. The thing is that most want to know _ even _ if it hurts, _ even _ if it has consequenses.

 

Who am I to determin that they are wrong and better off if I decide what is best for them and not them self? I take them seriously. If I know they do not care or do not want to know, and I would fish around, I would not say anyting.

 

As not doing is the same as doing something, no matter my choice has consequenses. Some of the women on the other BB said if you had told me I would be pissed at you, _ but _ if you had not told me and I got to know that I would be much more pissed at you.

 

As this is a Thai board, I should point out, that telling a Thai woman her husband is cheating, may dash well result in violence, or possible death. Do you wish to see a man dead or injured, and your "friend" in jail? What if they have children? Good God lad, do you ever think at all?

 

What you are saying is that in Thailand cheating on you wife might end up in violence, possible death ... and you still take part in it?

 

Yes I would look at the situation as best I can, but even in Thailand I would treat girls like individuals who can think for them self and respect their interests.

 

 

I would be derelict if I failed to warn you about interfering in such matters, as others have warned you. I believe "Old Hippie" said "...you are in a world you know nothing about..." This is increasingly more evident with each of your subsequent posts.

 

Yes as OH lost his argument he went of a rage bin and ended his argument with something along with yes I have double standards with more, but If you had told I'd fuck you up.

 

While I would considder it, I would still think the woman deserves a heads up, and would hate a man of violence come out on top just because he hurts people.

 

 

As you have stated you do not engage in the various entertainment venues on offer, or engage in activity outside your marital boundries, might I suggest you refrain from the conversations involving such.

 

Best Regards-BST

 

Ofcourse you can suggest it BST. You have my permission if that is what you ask for.

[Chillers]

But then I saw a link to ?Non-human animal sexuality? in that Wikipedia ?Monogamy? link you provided. And my theory has been undermined.

 

Bwhahahaha - Dogs boofing stuffed toys, Kangaroos jerking off, Bulls making sweet love to tractors, Racoons and Dogs, and Yaks and Horses.

 

55555555555!

 

I reiterate...

 

55555555555!

 

So how does the above mess up my theory? It appears that there is no biological necessity for a sexually monogamous couple. There is only a biological necessity for a sufficient number of males who:

 

1. Believe they must be faithful to their woman, and

2. Are therefore easily fooled into raising other males children

 

I've heard that since the advent of DNA testing for parentage the number of children fathered from adulterous relationships is much higher than everyone expected. This seems to support your point.

 

Perhaps the easily fooled males are themselves banging the neighbor?s woman and passing their genes that way. Or maybe since the monogamous relationship (that isn?t really monogamous since the female is covorting around in the woods with other males) lasts long enough so eventually one or more of those kids actually belongs to the male that remains monogamous.

 

And maybe the true purpose of a male having intelligence is to figure out how to get his seed spread around and not for the purpose of raising kids in a monogamous setting. But i'm digressing.

 

Yeah wise words methinks.

 

Have you heard about blocker sperm? It seems we have 2 kinds of sperm - not just the egg dudes. We also have Blocker Sperm, these little guys have smaller heads and big long tails. They form a protective barrier around the egg so no foreign sperm can get in and beat their egg dudes to the prize!!! This seems like pretty good evidence for the female biological imperative to go on multi guy shag fests. Think about how long sperm live - which is a FEW HOURS! (inside the bird that is)...

 

Our spermskis are so worried about other guys sperm that they have decided that even a few hours is not safe. How much shagging have chicks been doing for this kind of thing to evolve? It boggles the mind.

 

Back to my original theory. I now see there must have been some other basis for the claimed morality of marital only sex. Because it is not biologically important after all for a male to raise his own offspring with his woman. In fact, it is imperative (biologically) that the male get his seed injected into the woman next store, since his own woman may be pregnant with someone elses kid. The biological imperative here is the opposite of what I originally thought. Sex with the girl down the street is essential to survival of your bloodline. So why does the prevailing morality go against this? Maybe someone can explain where this idea of the morality of monogamous sex originated cause I?m stumped.

 

Ok, how did we get from the neurotic sperm to 1 guy and 1 gal for life thing? Well I don't really know but I'm guessing it has something to do with those guys who thought Aristotle was right about everything.

[Old Hippie]

While I would considder it, I would still think the woman deserves a heads up, and would hate a man of violence come out on top just because he hurts people..."

 

 

[Removed - KS]I rarely take someone off ignore, but as I was tipped you were talking about me, I couldn't resist...claiming victory are you? hmmm...you wrote:

I did say

"...Yes as OH lost his argument he went of a rage bin and ended his argument with something along with yes I have double standards with more, but If you had told I'd fuck you up. .."

 

Bit of a miss quote, and a bit out of context, lame tactic on your part... Never said I had double standards, I did say different rules for different situations, not different rules just for me...you fail to realize there are no black and white lines here...you fail to grasp the concept that there are differences in the scenarios discussed here. Not about double standards either, I said I had no problem ratting for revenge!(and I am aware there would be ramifications for doing so) A petty self serving motive, buit what is your motive? to see a "friend" suffer?

 

As for me fucking you up...? again, a bit out of context...I believe you had written something like "...if I knew your wife, and You didn't stop cheating when I told you to, then you'd be in the doghouse..." some such crap...in any event, my reply was simple enough yet you didn't get it.

 

I am not currently married, but, I stated then, and now, you were breaking 3 rules, one, threatening me, 2) trying to force your morality on me (despite your denials, that is exactly what you are trying to do) and lastly, you'd be sticking your nose in my business...all of which would indeed get my full on revenge if you even tried that. Cause me and my wife/kids pain, you'd suffer, don't try to shift the blame to me in that case, they were happy until you opened you mouth...most guys feel that way not just on a cheating issues...

 

You fail to realize there is a difference between helping a friend WHEN ASKED and simply opening your big mouth. Ratting out a lieing bar girl to a friend WHO ASKS, saves him heart ache and finanancial loss, HE comes out ahead in this case. Yes, the girl loses also, but using your logic, so what, she deserves it right? your scenario of just going up and ratting, ruins it for everyone, even you, yet you fail to see a difference.

 

It was mentioned that violence could ensue as a result of you opening your mouth. Your cop out reply was

 

" ...What you are saying is that in Thailand cheating on you wife might end up in violence, possible death ... and you still take part in it? ..."

 

O.k. fair enough, buy the ticket, take the ride...makes sense...until you take the punter out of it for a minute...assume the wife gets pissed, cuts his dick off, stabs him, blinds him, what ever...is that fair punishment for an affair? o.k. what ever...now forget him...what about her? what if her actions result in her going to jail? what if she kills him, and gets life? What happens to her? what about the kids? What if she is distraught and kills herself? How will she manage financially, as the alimony won't cover ALL her expenses, and she'll suffer financially... all questions you failed to answer Did you ever think of this?

 

My guess is, another lame excuse, blaming the punter/husband, when in fact it was a result of you opening your mouth. Remember, your scenario was "a happy marrage" She was clueless to any problems, and there might not have ever been any , until YOU ruined it by opening your trap...Do you love to see friends in pain? You will lose your "friend no matter what, so what do you stand to gain? another question you failed to answer...

 

O.k. so, as I said, never mind the guy, fuck him, you don't care...fair enough...but you are fucking up your friend here, the kids etc, far reaching consequences you most likely never concidered. You are selfish and only interested in ratting a guy out because you think it is wrong, never mind all the issues involved in their marrage, and never mind the outcome/consequences.

 

You have stated that you do not P4P or deal in the nightlife/punter world... I, and many guys here do. It is a way of life for us, "our world" if you will. We speak from our own experiences, what we have done, seen, know about had happen to us etc...all stuff you know nothing about, this is another aspect you fail to comprehend.

 

There are times/reasons to rat and times to shut up, you don't see/understand/know the difference, so it is clearly best for you to stay out of that world.

 

So, lets see, you fail to comprehend basic concepts, and answer questions, yet feel I lost the arguement? whatever dude. O.k. kid, go ahead and rat out who ever you want with no regard for anyone or anything but your own self serving moralist's interests. Remember my/our warnings when you lose your friends, are bleeding out the ears, and crawling on the ground looking for your teeth. Regardless, she'll wish you never told her, you'll wish you never told her, but remember, we told you so. Last word is your's, I'm back to ignoring you...for now anyway...

[AF16]

 

 

 

Little troll boy, I rarely take someone off ignore, but as I was tipped you were talking about me, I couldn't resist...

 

You make it sound like you are doing me a favor I don?t really care OH, and I don?t really care when you put me on ignore, then write an answer about me when answering someone else, the usual keep someone out of the circle routine.

 

Last word is your's, I'm back to ignoring you...for now anyway...

 

Allrihty then

 

I?ll answer your post anyway.

 

 

Never said I had double standards, I did say different rules for different situations, not different rules just for me...you fail to realize there are no black and white lines here...you fail to grasp the concept that there are differences in the scenarios discussed here. Not about double standards either, I said I had no problem ratting for revenge!(and I am aware there would be ramifications for doing so) A petty self serving motive, buit what is your motive? to see a "friend" suffer?

 

My motive is that most women want to know. If I know that she does not want to know or that she does not care it?s not my business. If she does want to know I think it?s my duty as a friend to tell her, even if it comes at a price for me. That?s what friends does, help out even when it?s not sunshine.

 

If I look at my self my world would take a dive for the worse if I got to know that my wife cheated on me. I would lose my wife, and that would be bad, but I would also get a diffrent relationship with my daughter, perhaps a 50-50 deal.

 

However I would want to know and I would end the marriage, and althoug I would feel bad, I would much rather know than not know. Somethimes life hurts, but you cut your losses and move on.

 

Not unlike learing that your dear thai gf is fucking others for money might both feel bad for the punter and might fuck up the BG life with slashing her wrist etc, if it were a mate of yours you would tell him to cut his losses now. You look out for your friend.

 

All I do is to take most womens wishes seriously. As I said 80 % on the poll i put up said they wanted to know, and more added that they wanted the friend to tell _ if _ the husband did not do it him self.

 

That?s a high number OH.

 

As I also said not doing anyting is also doing something. If the wife learned somehow that her husband fucks around and that her freinds knew but did not say anyting they would feel doubbel cheatd. Both by their husband but also by their friend. Again I would take that seriously and treat them like _ They like to be treated _.

 

 

 

I am not currently married, but, I stated then, and now, you were breaking 3 rules, one, threatening me, 2) trying to force your morality on me (despite your denials, that is exactly what you are trying to do) and lastly, you'd be sticking your nose in my business...all of which would indeed get my full on revenge if you even tried that. Cause me and my wife/kids pain, you'd suffer, don't try to shift the blame to me in that case, they were happy until you opened you mouth...most guys feel that way not just on a cheating issues...

 

I feel a bit silly dicussing this way on a BB. We are never going to meet and all this I?ll beat you up bit is silly. I were explaingin what I would do, and if a wife, yours if you want to make it about you, were a good friend of mine and I thought she would like to know about infidelity I would tell her.

 

What I find interesting is how you refuse any responsiblity in the hurt of your wife, when it?s the cheating part she actually are hurt by.

 

That you might be so pissed that you turn to violence is another matter. Again that would be the difference between a friend and a good friend. A good friend are a friend when it?s difficult as well, not only in good times.

 

 

You fail to realize there is a difference between helping a friend WHEN ASKED and simply opening your big mouth. Ratting out a lieing bar girl to a friend WHO ASKS, saves him heart ache and finanancial loss, HE comes out ahead in this case. Yes, the girl loses also, but using your logic, so what, she deserves it right? your scenario of just going up and ratting, ruins it for everyone, even you, yet you fail to see a difference.

 

Yes in my logic the girl deserve it, and I would do the same to her as I would to a cheating husband. Decieving someone, fucking around when it?s not wanted, lying, covering up. I don?t want people to do that to me, and if they do I want to know, and they would face the consequenses which in my case would now mean bye bye. This is not unique to me, in fact as I have said before a random internett poll on a women site gave an 80% + for wanting to know.

 

What you fail to see OH is that many want to know even if it means that you go from _ THINKING _ everyting is ok, to knowing it?s not and the pain that follow with it. I would rather know than live a lie.

 

 

It was mentioned that violence could ensue as a result of you opening your mouth. Your cop out reply was

 

" ...What you are saying is that in Thailand cheating on you wife might end up in violence, possible death ... and you still take part in it? ..."

 

O.k. fair enough, buy the ticket, take the ride...makes sense...until you take the punter out of it for a minute...assume the wife gets pissed, cuts his dick off, stabs him, blinds him, what ever...is that fair punishment for an affair? o.k. what ever...now forget him...what about her? what if her actions result in her going to jail? what if she kills him, and gets life? What happens to her? what about the kids? What if she is distraught and kills herself? How will she manage financially, as the alimony won't cover ALL her expenses, and she'll suffer financially... all questions you failed to answer Did you ever think of this?

 

I?m an exsistensialist OH. It means I am responsibel for all that I do. If I tell and the wife kill her husband I?m partly to blame. If I do not tell and the wife finds out shooting her husband I will also be partly to blame.

 

The difficult part is that you can not forsee the future and still you _ have _ to do something. Wether that something is doing something or doing nothing, both options is a choice of action.

 

As an aditional answer I add that I would as you say considder every situation before doing sometihng, but the main gist is that if the wife is a friend and I think she want to know, I will be a friend and bring the bad news.

 

My guess is, another lame excuse, blaming the punter/husband, when in fact it was a result of you opening your mouth. Remember, your scenario was "a happy marrage" She was clueless to any problems, and there might not have ever been any , until YOU ruined it by opening your trap...Do you love to see friends in pain? You will lose your "friend no matter what, so what do you stand to gain? another question you failed to answer...

 

I have answered but you are so angry you are ranting away. I respect that most want to know even if it?s bad news. It?s about them, not me. I do not get a thrill out of it. I would find it uncomfortable and a burdain, but if they want to know I will respect it.

 

 

O.k. so, as I said, never mind the guy, fuck him, you don't care...fair enough...but you are fucking up your friend here, the kids etc, far reaching consequences you most likely never concidered. You are selfish and only interested in ratting a guy out because you think it is wrong, never mind all the issues involved in their marrage, and never mind the outcome/consequences.

 

As I have said I dont? belive in right and wrong. Those are meangless terms out of context. I can not look up in a book what is right and what is wrong. What is the elements to consider here? A husband are cheating on his wife. His cheaing involves breaking her trust, puting her at risk for VD, it involves deceite. I do not like anyone to do that to me, and most do not like it.

 

What end up as a moral statment here is that this is not a way to treat people if you care about not hurting them.

 

The other part of the moral equation is that everyone is them self the right person to decide what is best for them, even when choosing something difficult and hurtfull.

 

As I said when having to choose between the cheated wife and the cheater I go with the cheated.

 

Again as we are imperfect I do not know 100 % that she would like to know, but I don?t know that she would not know either. I would try finding out, make a judgemnt call, and choose an action. An action that could be to tell or an action to not tell, according to what I think is the wish of the wife.

 

You have stated that you do not P4P or deal in the nightlife/punter world... I, and many guys here do. It is a way of life for us, "our world" if you will. We speak from our own experiences, what we have done, seen, know about had happen to us etc...all stuff you know nothing about, this is another aspect you fail to comprehend.

 

It?s your life and I have not told you to stop. I have told about what I think is right for me and what is wrong for me. Due to my previous experiences and what I hold dear, I have activly chocen to not vist bars with more, and it have been helpfull in my relationship with my wife. It has made her more secure in being able to trust me.

 

You might choose diffrently.

 

With the scenario we look at here we have two friends and my actions will have consequenses not matter what I choose. Even if it?s walking away. Both you and your wife have interests that I have to balance as a friend, so your way of life and your world in this case affects someone else, your wife, and is then not only a matter for you. The main principle in libertariansm is that your right to controll your fist ends where the other persons nose begins. Your wifes wish to not be cheated on are her nose, and you cheating is your fist in a matter of speaking.

 

 

There are times/reasons to rat and times to shut up, you don't see/understand/know the difference, so it is clearly best for you to stay out of that world.

 

I think we argree that there are times to speak out and times to keep silent, what we disagree on is when to speak and when to keep silence. You later have modified your self, and would tell if it were your sister or in other scenarios, so I think you might consider basking off a bit on your rabbit ranting if you were not so emotionally riled up.

 

On the other hand I am staying out of ?this world?. As I have said I have chosen to not visit bars, not go to Pattaya, and so on, so I think that part is already covered.

 

 

 

So, lets see, you fail to comprehend basic concepts, and answer questions, yet feel I lost the arguement? whatever dude. O.k. kid, go ahead and rat out who ever you want with no regard for anyone or anything but your own self serving moralist's interests. Remember my/our warnings when you lose your friends, are bleeding out the ears, and crawling on the ground looking for your teeth. Regardless, she'll wish you never told her, you'll wish you never told her, but remember, we told you so.

 

You make a lot of assumptions here, I think you are somewhat wrong.

 

To expand a bit on the morality bit if I may; hey BST I?m not really asking for permission , I have thought a bit on a couple of things when reading this BB and thought a thing or two to my self and would be interested in some aditional views, if there are someone that has not put me on ignore and would like to answer.

 

I think it?s safe to say that the ?general? world does not have that positive a view on men going to Thailand to fuck prostitutes. They look down on them.

 

Punters in return have or adopt a YMMV aproach, which is fine, no problem there.

 

However, despite your distaste for morality and christians, you guys also have moral standards. I think most here despice pedophiles. That is a moral stance.

 

What you do then is that you have _ diffrent _ standards on _ some _ issues. You would likely not hessitate to rat on a pedophile even if it would ruin his familys life, because you would think the childs interests are more importaint than the interests of the phedophile and even the interests of the family, who likely would like to know even it if would be hurtfull and fuck up their life.

 

Now the question, how much does your YMMV aproach change your view on certain subjects? How might it change acts from something you despice to something that is acceptable but not your thing.

 

The reason I ask is that I have read two posts where I expected some reactions where there came none.

 

One were when a man told how he and his wife were out to get a prostitute to engage in a threesome. They hooked a girl but she found it so distastefull that she had to drink her self sensless before she could do the act. No one mentioned anyting. This is not your ... hey some like it, P4P argument.

 

The other were someone saying that the reason people did not fuck young girls were the law, if the law said younger girls were fair game ?we would all do it?.

 

I did not read many objecting there either.

 

I don?t know if people disagreed silently, did not read it, thought YMMV or simply did not care, but isn?t it a danger that your moral compass might be scewed from where it were previously due to alligning your self to your justification of defending your choice of actions most of society look down on?

[BelgianBoy]

Old Hippie said:

Little troll boy

OH,

 

I like the way you flame here and get away with

 

BB