Two timers

[AF16]

BSTaucer said:

"...Allways practial. I don't belive in right or wrong, so no pietistic morality, but I belive in treating people nice and with respect..."-From AF 16

 

 

 

 

My Dear AF 16,

 

YOU AGAIN! Yes well then, down to it I suppose. I have read your comments here for awhile now. Tell me sir, were you born by a devine order better then the rest of us or is it something you had to work at?

 

Strawman ...

 

 

Despite your denials of moralizing and judging, you seem to do it rather well.

 

I deny having a pietist morality or beliveing in morality as a truth. I do belive in some values which I prefer.

 

That means that I don't think sex outside of marriage or with the same sex is bad because a god or some natural law dictates it. Every action has consequenses though so while having sex with a consentual adult is ok, having HIV and having unprotected sex with someone without telling is something I find to be wrong because it involves lying and putting the other person at risk of cathcing a undesirable decease, potentially lethal if untreated.

 

I have now given the reason for what I think is right and wrong and it's up to you to accept or decline.

 

In a society we make certain guidelines to make the society work because we have to. We have to live together and find some kind of order and I suspect even you would not like total anarchy.

 

 

 

From your comments here, and in other threads, you seem to come off as a bit arrogant and with the air of superiority only a truely daft and clueless toss puts forth.

 

As opposed to your posts that never are arrogant or with the air of superiority you mean I'll keep that in mind

 

 

 

Oh dear lord! this type of sniveling rubbish really makes me sick. What ever happened to proper men? At the risk of sounding common and vulgar, may I suggest to you sir, that what your friends do in their marital relationships is non of your damned business?

 

If the woman is a friend of mine I do look after her interests. If a murderer told you he were going to kill your best friend would you call him and let him know or stay out of 'their' business? The scenario we are dicussing are a lot less clear and with more gray areas, but it's a bit easy to brush it off as none of my business.

 

 

Tell me lad, why is it that you waste your time on a net board such as this which is dedicated to sex and debauchery?

 

Many reasons, information being the most importaint, but again there is nothing wrong with sex in it self.

[BJ_Blackowitz]

@ AF 16

 

Man where never ment to be monogamous

it is the godforsaken christian religion that mad it that way as of about the time luther was active

 

before that the christian church was very happy about man fucking around making babbies everywehere thereby creating a broader range of soldiers and taxpayers.

 

now tell me again are we doing anything wrong?

 

for a churchgooer who secretely reads NP.com and whishes he could do as he whishes and takes "sandwich" home from the videostore maybee yes.

 

I have lived in one of hollands most regerious christly area's and seen it all....

 

you can do what you like as long as mr prayer doesnt know about it.

 

yeah yeah yeah... sure dudes....

[Old Hippie]

AF,

 

So, let's get this right...you have a wife (is she Thai BTW?), but post on a board where you claim you do so to get information. Some or a lot of the information on this board deals with...well...where to go and cheat on your wife...now, you then say you see nothing wrong with sex, but you think a man going outside of the marrage to have sexual needs met is wrong...you say it is wrong, yet, you also say you make no judgements, and are not moralizing...

 

O.k. let's have a look here...you are married but read about where to get sex (not buying your information only crap, too many other sights for that), you ARE indeed passing a moral judgement here, saying that ALL men cheat are doing so because they lie cheat, deceive etc...well, that is illinformed at best. SO in short, you are trying to play both ends here...wishing to apear non judgemental, yet making a moral judgement based on some preconceived notion you have about men who cheat...

[AF16]

Man has never had a 'meaning' so in that case you are more with the God crowd who belive that man has a purpose.

 

One could claim that it's comon that men and woman cheat, some say man is serial monogamous, we could say it's certain that we lie, but that does not mean it's ok to do so.

 

What are we left with if we peal away the layers? The wife is lied to, she most likely does not approve of her husband cheating on her or else he could just as well tell her right? Is it right to deliberately lie and potentially hurt your wife?

 

PS. I'm Atheist.

[AF16]

Old Hippie said:

AF,

 

So, let's get this right...you have a wife (is she Thai BTW?),

 

Yes she is Thai.

 

 

but post on a board where you claim you do so to get information. Some or a lot of the information on this board deals with...well...where to go and cheat on your wife..

 

 

I first came her after being directed here from another BB when I was seeing a Thai P4P girl and a bit screwed up. Now I'm banned from that BB for being an asshole, so this is the place to get information about where to get Panasonic phones in Thailand, how to buy a house etc etc, and I read a bit about the nightlife as well. Make interesting reading, even the cheat on your wife thingie. Is it a problem with an opposing view?

 

.now, you then say you see nothing wrong with sex, but you think a man going outside of the marrage to have sexual needs met is wrong...you say it is wrong, yet, you also say you make no judgements, and are not moralizing...

 

I say sex it ok, lying, cheating and hurting your wife is not. If you say to your wife that you need to get some on the side and she say 'hey old hippie go for it' then there is no problem. Fuck who you like, how many you like for how long you like.

 

O.k. let's have a look here...you are married but read about where to get sex (not buying your information only crap, too many other sights for that)

 

No I do not read about where to get sex. In Thailand I can sex everywhere. Not only at the numerous bars along Sukumvith but in any old supermarket. I'm white with money, this is Thailand. I don't mind reading about sex though and read nightlife post semi regularely.

 

 

, you ARE indeed passing a moral judgement here, saying that ALL men cheat are doing so because they lie cheat, deceive etc...well, that is illinformed at best.

 

I am discussing moral issues. I'm not saying it's an objective truth but instead I put certain issues out there and say what I find to be good and bad. Cheating on your wife, as in fucking around not telling her, in my view is wrong because it would most likely hurt her and you also do not treat her as an equal when you choose not to talk to her about what you want from her and what you want for your self.

 

You might agree or not, up to you, we can discuss what we both feel about an issue and why.

 

The problem comes IRL if our interests collide. In the position described I can choose between hurting you by telling your wife, or hurting my friend, your wife, by not (simplyfing it in a most likely scenario). No mather what I choose I have choosen, no matter what I choose there will be consequenses. You cant get away from that.

 

 

SO in short, you are trying to play both ends here...wishing to apear non judgemental, yet making a moral judgement based on some preconceived notion you have about men who cheat...

 

I put out my judgments, but not from some pietist morality, only my own sense of right and wrong. What we talk about are the act of cheating on your wife, not about men who cheat. I do not doubt that they could in general be great people, in total many men cheating on their wife could be better than many men who do not, but this is about the act of going behind your wifes back and fuck around.

[BSTaucer]

"Old Hippie"Contributed

 

"...SO in short, you are trying to play both ends here...wishing to apear non judgemental, yet making a moral judgement ..."

 

Old Hippie,

 

My dear friend, I believe that is the product of a "neutral Country," They never really commit to one side or the other, yet pass judgements and condem others, on those who do take a stand, all the while, staying a safe distance away. Conveinient I supose.

 

"AF 16" contributed

 

"...I deny having a pietist morality or beliveing in morality as a truth. I do belive in some values which I prefer...."

 

Ah yes, I see my dear fellow, you pick and choose the values which suit you, then condem others who pick and choose their values as they see fit for themselves. You see lad, this is indeed the very definition of being judgemental.

 

Now then, you have stated numerous times that you are not presenting a moralist view, or believing in a morality. Well then sir, might I inquire as to what you base your claims of right and wrong on? If not a Morality of some sort, then what is it lad? You see lad, you are indeed presenting a moralist view, your moralist view as it were.

 

Now then, a square call in deed sir that lieing and cheating are indeed wrong. You shall get no arguement from me on that.

 

As you may know, I am proprietor of a public house here in UK. I would never think to pour less then a proper pint, short pour when tipping the hard, nor skimp on the food portions. However I do occassionally partake in a brief but enjoyable "indescretion" with a young lady or 2 while on holiday in Thailand. So while I would never lie or cheat in business or for money, I would and do "cheat" on my wife. You see, I have my values as well then. You see lad, I am indeed a hypocrite. Might you wish to inquire about joining?

[AF16]

BSTaucer said:

 

 

 

My dear friend, I believe that is the product of a "neutral Country," They never really commit to one side or the other, yet pass judgements and condem others, on those who do take a stand, all the while, staying a safe distance away. Conveinient I supose.

 

Sweden and Switzerland (SP?) are neutral, Norway is practially a state of the US.

 

"AF 16" contributed

 

"...I deny having a pietist morality or beliveing in morality as a truth. I do belive in some values which I prefer...."

 

Ah yes, I see my dear fellow, you pick and choose the values which suit you, then condem others who pick and choose their values as they see fit for themselves. You see lad, this is indeed the very definition of being judgemental.

 

 

All men have to pick and choose thier values. That does not mean it's just a matter of what fit. Lets say that my nr.1 value is autonomy, it is not btw, then I might be fored to accept that people does not pay tax to take care of the poor in a society even if I were dirt poor. In other words not something that would benefit me or would be easy for me.

 

We know how most wives feel about beeing cheated on. Do I think it's ok to treat my wife that way? No I do not. So far so good or...?

 

Then we get to the sentral point. A situation arise where one of my friends cheat on the other. I have to do something, either try adressing it or look the other way. No matter what I choose it has consequenses. There it is.

 

 

Now then, you have stated numerous times that you are not presenting a moralist view, or believing in a morality. Well then sir, might I inquire as to what you base your claims of right and wrong on? If not a Morality of some sort, then what is it lad?[/quoute]

 

On a subjectiv morality, a qualified morality. Here is what I think and why, agree or do not agree.

 

You see lad, you are indeed presenting a moralist view, your moralist view as it were.

 

Indeed, my moral view. Now, do you think it's wrong to torture and kill children? We all have moral prefences, some easier to make than others, all subjective, but we all make them.

 

Mine are based on consequenses.

 

 

 

Now then, a square call in deed sir that lieing and cheating are indeed wrong. You shall get no arguement from me on that.

 

As you may know, I am proprietor of a public house here in UK. I would never think to pour less then a proper pint, short pour when tipping the hard, nor skimp on the food portions. However I do occassionally partake in a brief but enjoyable "indescretion" with a young lady or 2 while on holiday in Thailand. So while I would never lie or cheat in business or for money, I would and do "cheat" on my wife. You see, I have my values as well then. You see lad, I am indeed a hypocrite. Might you wish to inquire about joining?

 

We are all hypocrites, it's not humanly possible to be 100% consistent. That said I will not cheat on my wife. I have done, are doing and will do a lot I think is wrong, I'm far from a good person. Cheating on my wife by fucking around will not be one of the things I do wrong however.

[Old Hippie]

"...I first came her after being directed here from another BB when I was seeing a Thai P4P girl and a bit screwed up. Now I'm banned from that BB for being an asshole, ..."

 

AH HA!!!! Now we are getting somewhere! What happened? the bar girl cheated on you? so now you know the pain and won't do it to another? Was she from Si Saket by the way? Were you married at the time? Ever cheat on a wife, Girl friend, taxes? Hmmmm....?

 

O.k. just to be a prick here (USa slang for asshole or dick) let me ask, how are you so 100% sure your wife never cheated on you? Thai women are famous for lieing in all aspects, especoally the ones for a "nightlife past." Mind if I ask did your wife ever work in nightlife? Moonlight?

 

The biggest fear/problem for women concerning cheating, is the loss of income, suport and the loss of face. Many women will set rules for their men regarding cheating, such as no mia nois, no salary, no girl friends, go do your thing, don't let me, the kids family friends etc know about it, be descreet...so this is somewhat of an acknowledgement that they know it is going on.

 

So, is it still cheating if the wife has set these rules? She has more less said "o.k. under these circumstances..."

 

I was involved with a woman years back, who told me "...never bring another lady this place, don't let me know about you have other lady don't make me lose face..." I naturally started to deny anything, and say " I don't..." but before I could get another word out, she continued "...don't lie, say you don't do, I don't like man tell a lie. You do o.k. you lie we finish..."

 

So the rules of were set. Was I cheating on her when I shagged 2 from Dollhouse that night? she was on the rag (period) and couldn't fuck, we weren't married, but were pretty steadyfor awhile, she wasn't a bar girl/ sex worker, but I am sure she had her other guys when I was home, can't blame her, she was older 43 at the time, and playing all Last options...so is that cheating, me tapping another? her getting tapped?

[BSTaucer]

AF 16,

 

Good God lad! You areall over the place in your logic, if that is what you wish to call it. No one is talking of abstracts such as anarchy or murdering children, yet you raise mention of them as though it has some relevent point. It does not.

 

Sir, with all do respect to you, your argument is laughable. You claim it is not based in any moral judgement, then ultimately, were forced to admit that was exactly what you are doing.

 

Lad, I would strongly suggest that you stay out of other peoples marital affairs for their sake and yours.

 

Best Regards-BST

[AF16]

Old Hippie said:

 

 

AH HA!!!! Now we are getting somewhere! What happened? the bar girl cheated on you?

 

She was a BG, how could she cheat on me? It was something totally new for me, I did not understand what was happening, I misread the situation and the natur of our 'relationship'. She never were my GF really.

 

so now you know the pain and won't do it to another? Was she from Si Saket by the way?

 

Something like that. Empaty is understanding how others feel by transfering your own experiences onto them. I know how it feels to be lied to, cheated on and mislead. I don't like it. I don't like it so much that I would hate to do it to others. I lie about other things, things I do not find to be as serious, things I think have less severe consequenses.

 

[quoute] Were you married at the time? Ever cheat on a wife, Girl friend, taxes? Hmmmm....?

 

No, No, No, never had the oppertunety.

 

O.k. just to be a prick here (USa slang for asshole or dick) let me ask, how are you so 100% sure your wife never cheated on you? Thai women are famous for lieing in all aspects, especoally the ones for a "nightlife past." Mind if I ask did your wife ever work in nightlife? Moonlight?

 

I don't know about the first but do not think so, no baring on the discussion we are having though. As for the seccond, I know she had a non P4P job when I met her and a timeline before. More than that I do not know and I do not care really. I am pretty sure she never worked in a bar though but Thai girls interested in falangs are likely to have been in the fringe of the nightlifeindustry at least.

 

 

 

The biggest fear/problem for women concerning cheating, is the loss of income, suport and the loss of face. Many women will set rules for their men regarding cheating, such as no mia nois, no salary, no girl friends, go do your thing, don't let me, the kids family friends etc know about it, be descreet...so this is somewhat of an acknowledgement that they know it is going on.

 

So, is it still cheating if the wife has set these rules? She has more less said "o.k. under these circumstances..."

 

No it's not cheating, she has given her blessing. It's not without ethical issues however, as it still _ might _ be something that hurts her but she values other things more, but it's much less severe. In any case not my business. It's someting you and your wife has discussed and agreed upon. Your business.

 

I was involved with a woman years back, who told me "...never bring another lady this place, don't let me know about you have other lady don't make me lose face..." I naturally started to deny anything, and say " I don't..." but before I could get another word out, she continued "...don't lie, say you don't do, I don't like man tell a lie. You do o.k. you lie we finish..."

 

So the rules of were set. Was I cheating on her when I shagged 2 from Dollhouse that night? she was on the rag (period) and couldn't fuck, we weren't married, but were pretty steadyfor awhile, she wasn't a bar girl/ sex worker, but I am sure she had her other guys when I was home, can't blame her, she was older 43 at the time, and playing all Last options...so is that cheating, me tapping another? her getting tapped?

 

Same as above. She gave an ok, she said she did not want you to tell her, she told you not to lie (deny). It's a deal between you and her.

 

How do you think she feels about you fucking around btw?