Strict New Controls on Foreigners

[shygye]

Is a bag of pineapple still 10 baht at the local street vendor?

[..]

Gadfly1 said:

The one thing I would add is this: when you operate in a gray zone, you are very vulnerable. "Tehnical violations" are enforced when a local party has an interest in enforcing them, and it is hard to complain when you are violating the law. If your interests diverge from those of a local party with even only a modicum of power, you will be reminded of this. And this will have a chilling effect on what you do here.

And to this I say som nam na!. If you are breaking the law, don't bitch when you get caught. It really IS that simple. Just like "victims" of con-men, I have little sympathy for greedy buggers who get caught out because they tried to skirt the law to put more $$ in their pocket. Nor do I have sympathy for anyone stupid enough to not do their own due dilligence on a business venture, especially when said venture is being used as a way around a certain law. And ANYONE buying property in that way knew exactly that this was the case. It doesn't matter if we like the law or not. It is there and you have to deal with it.

 

And before any of y'all start, yes, I break the law by shagging whores and drinking after hours. I know full well what I am getting into when I do those things. And if I get caught, I'll pay my fine and get on with life instead of whinging about it.

 

Cheers,

SD

[Guest]

If you are breaking the law, don't bitch when you get caught. It really IS that simple. Just like "victims" of con-men, I have little sympathy for greedy buggers who get caught out because they tried to skirt the law to put more $$ in their pocket. Nor do I have sympathy for anyone stupid enough to not do their own due dilligence on a business venture, especially when said venture is being used as a way around a certain law.

What if the same Thai government that is enforceing these regulations is also promoting property sales to foreigners? I posted this in the News Section a bit back:

In an effort to promote investment in Thailand (according to the BOI, investment is down 50% through April of this year), the Thai government has sponsored programs promoting the sale of property in resort locales such as Koh Samui and Phuket to foreigners. I was out of town for the long weekend, and saw such a promotion. They even mentioned the use of companies to acquire property.

 

I asked a Thai consular official about the new regulation in front of some prospective investors, and he looked very baffled. He also asked for my business card so that he could send me an email to clarify matters; I just couldn't seem to find any. Really weird, and for obvious reasons I am not going to give any more details (just is case suadum is right and the government actually does monitor this website.)

 

Further, in the departure area of the international airport there is - or at least was - a large booth promoting resort property sales to foreigners. Anyone know if it is still there? If so, do they still push the use of companies to buy land?

And what if reputable international property brokerages, such as CB Richard Ellis, are promoting sales in Phuket:

About a week after the new regulations hit the press, I got a mass circulation email from CBRE promoting sales of luxury properties in Phuket. Not a hint anywhere in that promo of any restriction on foreign ownership of land.

CB Richard Ellis And is it really illegal? The lawyer in the Bangkok Post is quoted as saying this is a radical implimentation of the law.

 

There are similiar rumblings about the preference share companies that are used to address the Alien Business Law. There must be thousands, if not tens of thousands, of such companies in Thailand, many used by major multinational corporations. I cannot see any principled difference between using the exact same structure to address property law restrictions and alien business law restrictions. In other words, if this structure is illegal for property acquisitions, it should also be illegal for everything else, right?

 

Actually, that does seem to be the way things are drifting here now. But think of the consequences to the economy. If this drift continues, there are going to be alot of unemployed Thais (or at least Thais employed in jobs that don't pay nearly as well as the one's they hold now.)

 

I know it is the law here, but I can understand why foreigners are honestly confused. Reputable property brokers and the government itself (or at least parts of it) are pushing foreign investment in the form of property acquisitions. And it seems to me that Thailand is playing a very dangerous game in the current environment where investments are down a whopping 50% and everyone - the opposition and the government - agree that there will be an economic slowdown.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Suadam saud:

[color:"red"]"If you are breaking the law, don't bitch when you get caught. It really IS that simple. Just like "victims" of con-men, I have little sympathy for greedy buggers who get caught out because they tried to skirt the law to put more $$ in their pocket."[/b][color:"black"]

 

I think you went too far with your point on this one. If I read you right, if a person gets conned in a gem scandal, it is the victim's fault and you have no sympathy for the victim.

 

Some of your philosophy sounds interesting but I got this feeling that not everybdy goes along with what you preah, especially your wife.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Gadfly, I think some people think you are full of shit so I looke up CB Richard Ellis' website. They make no indications that there are restrictions on owning land in Thailand, just as you say. One of the items they have for sale is a golf course. No restrictions.

 

Your info seems to worthy of discussion. Suadam's comments that if a person gets conned, he has no symphany for them is just a reflection of Suadam and his life style. If you say yellow, he is going to say green. If you decide to say green, he will come back with yellow. Just a difference of opinion even if it is in opposites all of the time. Just my observation, so take it for what it is worth.

[MaiLuk]

GF,

 

>>I know it is the law here, but I can understand why foreigners are honestly confused. <<

 

Prior to the recent announcements, I also could understand. Lawyers and other farangs all saying just use a corporation with thai nominee shareholders and everything will be fine. The lawyers could even boast how their corporate set ups have never ever been challenged.

 

But with the new pronouncements, there is no confusion whatsoever. You buy land in thailand, no matter how you try to structure it (corporation, lease, ltd partnership, REIT whatever) if the thais want to screw you they will. And you can say bye bye to your investment.

 

It no longer matters what the thai gov or some realtor is promoting, the cat is out of the bag. You would have to be a real dumb shmuck to be aware of the pronouncements and still go asking some lawyer or realtor "You think its OK for me to buy some land?" Sure its OK my friend. LOL!

[Guest]

It no longer matters what the thai gov or some realtor is promoting, the cat is out of the bag. You would have to be a real dumb shmuck to be aware of the pronouncements and still go asking some lawyer or realtor

I think the key words here "are to be aware of the pronouncements and still..." What about those who put down large deposits before these changes? If these new regulations are actually enforced, they are screwed.

 

How many Farangs really know about these new regulations and changes? If this continues and they seriously enforce these new regulations, word will certainly spread. I am sure that the Farangs who get screwed by these new regulations will do a good job of spreading the word. But right now I suspect there are still plenty of Farangs who think they can use companies to buy property. There will be a lag between this change and when reality sinks in.

 

What is going to happen to all of the half complete luxury properties in Phuket, Koh Samui and Pattaya? In Phuket, they were marketing some villas for around US$1 million. These were big projects. Are they going to remain half-completed eyesores for the next 10 years?

 

If these arrangements are don't work for property, why should they be trusted to address Alien Business Law issues? The structures are identical.

 

If investors can't trust the Thai government to treat them fairly, are they going to continue to invest in Thailand? I think I the answer to this last question.

 

My hope is that reason will prevail and we will see more sensible policies put in place. Otherwise, we are in for a very bumpy ride.

[..]

Bangkoktraveler said:

I think you went too far with your point on this one. If I read you right, if a person gets conned in a gem scandal, it is the victim's fault and you have no sympathy for the victim.

Yup. No sympathy. Why? Because they were sold on the fact that "This is a great deal and you can make lots of money when you sell them back home!" Greed was the motivator for them to buy something that they knew nothing about. Som nam na. If this is such a good deal, why are they offering it to you, some schmuck they plucked off a street corner? To put it simpler: didn't yer Daddy ever tell you that anything that is too good to be true is? If you did not listen, then som nam na. Does that make the con men right? Of course not -- they are scum too. But some people just seem to fail to grasp the concept of shared accountability and shades of grey versus black & white.

 

CB Richard Ellis...yup a big company. Good for them, but that fact doesn't make them infallible (at best) or 100% honest (at worst). WorldCom, Enron, Parmalat, etc., were big too and we see where they are today.

 

The laws in Thailand have not changed (making the title of this thread misleading at best). Enforcement has, in the property sector anyway. Other things brought up in this thread seem to be hyperbole. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Regards,

SD

[..]

Gaddy, you are certainly right that it is fucked up, but I have also been here a long time, own a fair amount of property here and chose not to try to put any of it in my name through shell companies. It looked to me to be an accident waiting to happen.

 

Thailand IS certainly shooting themselves in the foot, but I think it was you who reiterated the point about the history of foreign boogymen when the economy gets bad. The men in power *have* to know that the house of cards economy that TRT has built is due to come tumbling down (argueably already started). And they are prepping to "save their ass" but getting the gullible foreigners in the line of fire.

 

Why should anything change? Been that way for a very long time.

 

BTW, I full well expect this same thing to happen in ~10 (maybe less) in China, when they decide that all those foreign built (but only partially owned) factories would be better off in China's hands 100% (after they learn all there is to learn about running them, that is). Any Western biz who is not preparing for that is foolish IMHO. The key will be judging the right time to sell...but isn't it always

 

Cheers,

SD

[gummigut]

Another thing that's fucked up...

 

Trying to do things legally is really causing me grief and aggravation. From the government side (actually they've been pretty good) and the client side.

 

Thankfully there's finally light at the damn end of the tunnel!!!

 

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