Strict New Controls on Foreigners

[Guest]

From reading these posts, it would give the impression that all Thai people hate farangs. I really dont find that to be the case.

I hope not from my posts. I think it is far more complicated. Many powerful vested interests fear globalization because it represents competition to their business interests, and to many, farang businesspeople represent the face of globalization. Social conservatives feel challenged because younger Thais, particularly those from the middle and upper class (their children often), are adopting western habits and attitudes, which leads to...

Bangkok is a very young city( the people). I think the younger generations are quite free thinking, liberal and open minded.

I agree that the younger generation is generally more free thinking, liberal and open minded. But of course many of the most free thinking, liberal and open minded Thais have left Thailand and live elsewhere. Try recruiting a Westernized educated smart Thai with a good job in the US to come back to Thailand. Damn hard.

 

It's not just money, but the whole social system here where, for example, they'll have to kow tow to less competent superiors based on what is essentially a class system (sakdina). In perverse sort of way, this actually creates jobs for Westerners. We are outside the system and therefore we are allowed to do things that need to get done and say things that need to be said.

 

It's a cliche that is repeated here all the time, but it's true: Thailand is two steps forward, one step back. I think we're in the one step back phase, at least in terms of economic policy.

[shygye]

jxxxl said:

shygye said:

Force more people to PAY for work permits...

 

Are there any work permit holders (or their employers) who haven't paid? Perhaps you can tell us all how this is done?

 

If every biz-man coming for a convention or meeting has to get a work permit that will be more baht into government coffers.

[Lord Toad]

It is interesting that corruption has only been touched upon. If you consider that the government expenditure is nearly us$ 32 Billion and it is generally agreed that corruption under Taxksin requires about 35% of government contract to go sideways: as opposed 20 ? 25% pre-Tacksin. Ok not all the budget is contracts, there are government employees etc. including the armed forces, but it is safe to assume 2/3 or 20 Billion plus is subject to say 30% corruption that mean 6 Billion or 228 Billion baht is potentially going side ways. Just reduce that figure by 10% and a lot of problems are solved. Also it makes the sale of shin corp look insignificant!

[StoneSoup]

If every biz-man coming for a convention or meeting has to get a work permit that will be more baht into government coffers

 

Again - if ANYONE thinks they have EVER seen a Labor Ministry enforcement officer, please tell us all about it. Because - I don't think such an animal exists. The only enfocement arm belongs to Immigration.

 

And - I'll venture to say that if Immigrtion wants to instantly raise a large amount of cash, they will simply start enforcing the 90 day reporting rule - no renewals of extended entry permits until you pay your fine - which the law states can be 5,000 baht (even though they now only collect 2,000 baht). My guess is that Bangkok Immigration alone could collect at least 200 fines per day for at least 90 days - that's 90 million baht.

 

They could do that EASILY - but they haven't. If they aren't going after such "low-hanging fruit," it makes no sense to me that they would exert the initiative to try to raise such funds from a new enforcement sector.

 

Now - if or when they DO actually start enforcing the 90 day reporting rule - THAT will be a strong signal to me that other enforceent rules are likely to follow. Until then, I can't see new initiatives happening. And - the fact that Immigration is not chasing down the 90 day delinquencies is proof to me that they are not being badgered about not bringing in enough revenue. As the head of Immigration, you just don't take beatings over weak collections, while at the same time ignoring 100 million baht of easy to collect fines.

 

SS

[StoneSoup]

Soup,

 

I'm a bit too drunk to answer this fully but basically it is a load of crap you're writing.... BUYERS were arrested ... not sellers...people in charge succeeded putting off worldwide buyers to come and spend their hundred thousand/millions of dollars in Thailand...perhaps if you hanged out more in Chantaburi you'd have a clue...

 

K-69 - You are right. I goofed in my reference to the location. My reference was to an occurrence at a different location - evidently at a jewelry trade center in Bangkok - late 2004 or early 2005 - big arrest sweep, lots of crying - but called for by shop owners who were tired of losing business to transients who avoided the costs of operating legitimately - and could thus undercut the prices of the legit vendors.

 

So - my comments were not correct to be applied to the Chanthaburi scenario. I have no informed thoughts on the Chantaburi situation. My apologies.

 

What remains true in the larger setting is that when "dodgy foreign business people" compete with "legitimate businesses people" in Thailand - and the people who paid the price to do things correctly start suffering at the hands of the those foreigners who operate "off the books" - then it is pretty likely that the registered business people are going to call in the Immigration enforcement people.

 

Trade show visitors, and businessmen passing through routinely aren't in a position to threaten local business interests in this way. That's is why it is VERY unlikely that they will ever be targets for a large-scale work permit enforcement campaign. No one's ox is getting gored, so no one cares.

 

SS

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Stonesoup, thanks for clearing this up and also for replying in a courteous manner rather than replying in kind to kojis69 less-than-courteous post.

 

Sanuk!

[junglesoup]

Gadfly1 said:

From reading these posts, it would give the impression that all Thai people hate farangs. I really dont find that to be the case.

I hope not from my posts.

 

No I dont mean from yours GF. Infact I dont direct it towards anyone in particular.

 

I think you have a pretty balances view on it. I was just thinking that a first time reader on here would get the impression that all thai people are like that. I m sure alot of people dont mean it, but there are alot of sweeping generalisations made. I think its really difficult to group all Thai people under the same sign.

[Guest]

If these Thais really check for working permit at the hotel convention or check people who are at meetings here to purchase Thai goods or services, it will make the biggest international joke.

 

Thai is losing lights years behind China already in exports recently, this is a great way to put the end to Thai exports. Very good way to nail the lid on your own coffin.

 

I think China and Malaysia will be so happy to see these smart Thai monkeys are doing so well protecting their country.

[vegasdave49]

Well all very interesting. My heart goes out to the lower end of the Thai population. Those without connections ect.

With that said I will be a bit selfish here. Until or unless the Thais can get their act together LOS will continue to be an economic backwater. What does that mean for me. Well it means LOS will continue to be an inexpensive place to and have fun. I think the money I spend gets nicely distributed to the lower end Thais so that makes me feel better. But if I where to be honest I would feel a bit of a lose if all of a sudden LOS became Japan or Hong Kong or Malysia. LOS is one of the last places where you can have a good time on a budget. Selfish I know but after all this board is about just that.

[junglesoup]

The thing is Vegas Dave, Thailand will not develop so much and independentely from other countries.

 

Ok, things will get more expensive in Thailand, but if your coming from a western country, then these countries experience growth also. I mean the minimum wage in the UK is now at £5.32 per hour. Even for the lowest paid people in the Uk would find things cheap in the Thailand. Ok, property prices have increased in Thailand. However the same has been the case in the UK also and the US. If you were to sell a western property, you could buy 3 or 4 properties in bangkok.

 

Actually Bangkok has got cheaper for me than it was 3 years ago, even though prices have went up in Thailand. Why? The reason is that I m earning more pounds than before, and the sterling has been pretty strong against the Thai Baht. It was at 76 for a while. Now its 71. From 3 years ago when the sterling was at 64/65 baht, this has made 10-15 pound difference in every 100 pound I spend. An extra 1000 baht.

 

To put it a different way. If you were buying a condo in Bangkok, with euro, or sterling then the condo that cost say 5 million baht becomes 600 000 baht cheaper because of the sterling strength, in the last few years. I think Asia will always be cheap for westerners, unless there are massive changes in policies over the world. A global minimum wage for example, would go along way to putting prices in line.