Strict New Controls on Foreigners

[Guest]

I just find it hard to believe they are stupid enough to "raid" a convention at BITEC , find out 90% did not have a work permit and throw them all in jail and deport them

I 100% agree it is stupid, but never underestimate an official's...ehhr, or - I will put it this way - I think it is pretty clear that the law would allow them to conduct such a raid.

 

Recall the raids on Q Bar where several hundred patrons had to wait for hours for urine tests. This was reported in the international press. And I strongly suspect (but I will admit I don't know) that it was done because someone had an interest in harassing Q Bar.

 

I am just guessing here, but my guess is that we won't see raids on BITEC (that is pretty extreme), but a step up in selective enforcement. You annoy a vendor during a meeting and the boys in brown show up. This will happen more often. Or, if a local party doesn't want to be obviously connected to the arrest, the MiB show up at a business center where a troublesome foreinger is staying, and arrest him and few others who happen to be working on their laptops nearby. Now this does appear to be happening.

 

This won't make the press (unless they arrest Bill Gates), but it will make it more difficult and risky for Farangs conducting business here. To me, all of this seems like more than a coincidence. I can guess at what might be motivating it, but I don't really know. I do know, however, that there has been a sharp change in the environment here recently.

[elef]

"The MIB who did this would be sent to Thai Siberia (wherever that is)"

 

Opposite Siberia as it's hot in the southern provinces - Yala and Narathiwat for example

[OCgringo]

OK......all my friends from Europe that visit the USA come here to BUY stuff ,

 

cars , motorcycles , parts , etc

 

I assume they all came on a tourist visa , and I am sure if you read the USA tourist visa rules you are not allowed to "work"

 

now how many Euro tourist get busted for this ? ,

no idea but maybe the next one that cuts me out of a deal will be getting a visit from "La Migra"

 

OC

[Lord Toad]

I have been told much the same thing. But, of course, the real problem here is there is no due process. So if somebody is arrested in a hotel business centre, or a convention, there is not a court hearing for the judge to turn round and say this was clearly never the intention of the law. The lack of due process in the courts allows all these stupid interpretations to grow and become destructive. But as it suits the Chinese who run this country that is fine.

 

In other words it is who you know not what you know that matters here. And, of course, if you have lots and lots of spondolies that means you know most people.

 

And I agree the feeling is that a financial crash now will devastate the country but ensure a certain square faced person gets re-elected. He will blame everybody else for not letting him run the place: but we all know he has been in charge all along and whatever happens is his fault. But just as policy needs to encourage business and control inflation: all the money is going upcountry to keep Issan on side!!! That is clearly not in best interest of the country as a whole.

 

Might be a good time to look at Malaysia!

[gene1944]

Misdirection plays and attention spans

 

In football (American), a misdirection play occurs when an "obvious" play is shown to the defense (ie a fake run up the middle) so the offense can succesfully complete the un-obvious play (a long pass into the end zone).

 

Same is true in politics. Misdirection plays happen all the time all over the real world. When times are tough economically, leaders might start or threaten a war so people can vent their frustration at "the enemy" instead of towards those dictating economic policy. The war does not have to be a traditonal war, just something to distract people and give them a different target for awhile.

 

Some countries have very short public attention spans when it comes to problems (like airport scanners and bribes). How many problems ever get resolved so that influential people who caused the problem are brought to justice?

 

Think about it.

[elef]

"Urgent and Essential Work :

Exemption from Work Permit requirements is granted to foreigners who enter the Kingdom temporarily, but in accordancewith the immigration law, to perform any work of any ?urg e n t and essential nature? for a period not exceeding 15 days.

H o w e v e r, such aliens may engage in work only after a written notification on a prescribed form, signed by the foreigner and endorsed by his employer, has been submitted to and accepted by the Director-General or his designee.

Foreigners entitled to this treatment may enter T h a i l a n d

with any kind of visa, including a transit visa. The term ?urg e n t and essential work? is not explicitly defined and consequently, the issuance of this sort of exemption is a matter of administrative discretion."

 

A Business Guide to Thailand

[StoneSoup]

I do business in the sector of foreingers doing business in Thailand.

 

Thre is something going on in relation to property purchases. I suspect that it will be short-lived - then back to

"business as usual".

 

The malarky about work permit rules being enforced for transiting foreign businssmen - at trade shows and hotel business centers is absolutely ludicrous - it is a total "wind up" - and I cannot believe anyone would even begin to take this absurd rumour seriously. Do you also believe in ghosts? UFOs?

 

The "Alien Occupational Control Division" of the Ministry of Labor does not even HAVE an enforcement arm with respect to Westerners - all they have is a small enforcement arm looking for slave sweatshops full of Burmese or Laotian, or Cambodian workers.

 

There has always been a "15 day urgent work permit" that a visitor can get on a walk-in bass at any labor office - intended for short term work by visiting technicians, trade show visitors, etc. Funny thing though - there is no fee charged for processing such an application. You know what that means? That means they are not interested in processing these - if you show up seeking to apply for one, they simply tell you to go away and don't bother them. It is not revenue source, therefore it is not worth their time.

 

Having floated around Bangkok for 11+ years now, I've seen the "fads" come and go - the only consistent trend I have seen is that - long term - government restrictions and harrssment have been going DOWN - not up. It keeps getting easier here.

 

Over the past 90 dys, there have been two "fads" - one involving tightening up on opening and controlling corporate bank accounts without a work permit, and the newest one about tightening up on corporate land purchases by foreig-controlled companies using Thai proxy shareholders. You can still lease land (as an individual or a company) for a lifetime plus, and own outrght a structure built on the land.

 

By the end of 2006, I expect routine practices in both these areas to return to more or less how things were at the start of 2006.

 

All the hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing may be entertaining, but I gotta' tell you - Thailand is NOT falling apart, and there is no master plan to make life hard on foreigners.

 

Cheers

SS

[Guest]

I agree that there is "no master plan to make life hard on foreigners." The comments made by the poster above about misdirection better describe my suspicions about what is actually happening.

 

But that doesn't change the face of this misdirection - stricter enforcement of laws affecting foreigners.

 

Some argue that, because many of these laws have always been here, there has been no change; the law remains the same. I take this fact a step further: actually, all of these laws remain the same. But that is not the point; the point is that implimentation has changed. For example, the law prohibiting foreign land ownership has always been there, but practices have clearly changed.

 

When you read the articles about new regulations on land acquisitions by companies with foreign shareholders or directors, the officials and lawyers in those articles stress that these are not changes in the law but changes in the implimentation of the law. The important point here is the nature of the implimentation. Lest I be accused of a exaggeration or a ?wind up?, I will simply provide this quote from the article in 31 May 2006 in the Bangkok Post about the changes:

The new regulation is actually an enforcement of existing laws. ?It?s not a radical change. It?s a radical implementation,? Mr. Ronochai [MD of a law firm] said.

In other words, the fact that these laws have always been there is beside the point. Or, more accurately, the fact that these laws have always been there actually cuts the other way.

 

For example, you mention that the 15 day temporary work permit has always been there. This is absolutely true. But the availability of a 15 day work permit is now proactively being used to justify enforcement against foreigners who fail to obtain one. Adding to the confusion, and again quoting from a reliable third party source (the legal guide I mentioned above):

Foreigners often confuse non-immigrant "B" (business) visas with work permits and believe such visas grant them right to work on a short time basis in Thailand. They do not.

It's confusing because in most countries, the US included, a "B" visa does allow you to attend business meetings, speak at seminars, do technical inspections, etc. This is not true in Thailand, and foreigners do get arrested for doing these things without a work permit. Like most things here, I suspect this happens when someone has an interest in tripping up a competitor or their creditor or simply has a grude (pretty common in the business world everywhere.) But it happens, and it is happening more often now.

 

I suspect and hope you are right about:

By the end of 2006, I expect routine practices in both these areas to return to more or less how things were at the start of 2006

I have been here over 12 years, but I spoke this morning with an ex-pat who has been here over 30 years, and he reminded me that these phases come and go in Thailand, and we are in a mini ice age right now. I say "reminded" intentionally because he reminded me that we saw similiar things during the backlash following the 1997 financial crisis, and then things actually got better than they were before.

 

So I am actually more of an optomist - I think that things will ultimately be much looser than they were before the current crackdown, but I am less sanguine about predicting when that will occur simply because the current political problem has lasted much longer than I would have expected.

[kojis]

"I just find it hard to believe they are stupid enough to "raid" a convention at BITEC , find out 90% did not have a work permit and throw them all in jail and deport them "

 

Well it may be a bit extreme but officials did raid the gem market in Chantaburi last year ( a very major city in world precious stones business), they checked all the people who didn't have time to escape from the place where they'd been buying without any hassles for well over a decade, and arrested all the people sitting without a work permit, including one holding a US passport. They spent several days in jail.

 

Later on there were several similar issues, buyers stopped going to Chantaburi, small factories went bankrupt, then it went on the general media and at the last conference I assisted officials said the issue was not settled but they'd stop the police harrasment for a while . Very curious on which high up people had to gain profit from that, seemed like all players I know lost quite a bit from it, including the major factories . Bangkok gem people were very edgy as well during that time, with daily raids and bribes usually paid getting bigger and bigger.

 

Heard a couple of time Thaksin's son wanted to start the jewelry business but not sure, anyone can confirm?

[samak]

bonsoir monsieur!

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