endless Visa Runs are over!!!

[Mentors]

what i fear will come soon or later is now here:

 

from The Nation

 

The days of foreign visitors doing endless "border runs" in order to live - and often work - in Thailand are over, the Immigration Police announced yesterday.

 

The Kingdom will tighten its immigration rules for tourists who exploit visa-free regulations, starting from the end of the month.

 

The move will affect tens of thousands of visitors from 41 countries who have been allowed to stay in Thailand for up to 30 days without a visa - often for many months or years.

 

The 41 visa-exempt countries include Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United States.

 

Tourists have been able to extend their stay by travelling to neighbouring countries - Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos and Burma - and returning with a further 30-day entry stamp.

 

But new rules have been issued because an increasing number of tourists have stayed for extended periods - without paying proper amounts of tax. This has also helped them avoid close scrutiny by authorities here and in their homeland.

 

"We are trying to make it more difficult for bad people to get in," Immigration Police chief Lt General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul said at a press conference yesterday.

 

"I don't think it's going to hurt good people because they can apply for a tourist visa [in their homeland]," he said.

 

The move is expected to have a big impact on the foreign community and some sectors such as teaching and diving, plus places where there are many bars run by foreigners, such as Pattaya and Chiang Mai.

 

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

 

And tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand.

 

Suwat denied the crackdown was related to the arrest in Bangkok last month of John Mark Karr, the American teacher who was thought to have been involved in the high-profile JonBenet Ramsey murder case. He said there were many reasons that extended back for a long period.

 

Suwat conceded the move may cause some problems, but said "maybe we have to do something to make it better [later]".

 

However, if foreigners wanted to work here they should get a work visa, he said.

 

A source added: "Under the current rules, people from these countries can stay in Thailand for as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year. Many work illegally in Thailand."

 

Instead of sightseeing, these tourists have taken advantage of the visa exemption by getting married to Thai women "for reasons other than love", and have conducted business here. Many of them have not paid tax.

 

The immigration move is a hot topic among foreign residents, and comes at a time when many are fearful about possible changes in regard to firms with local nominees.

 

Hundreds of comments were logged on local Web boards within hours of the Immigration Department press conference. Some said foreigners should abandon Thailand for neighbouring countries, while others predicted it might force school bosses to pay foreign teachers a proper wage or cause a boom in men wanting to marry Thai women.

 

Most believed the move could cost Thailand a small fortune.

 

Meanwhile, plans are under way to simplify the process for foreign teachers to work here as the current system requires 13 separate steps, which take many months to complete.

 

Heads of international schools have been meeting with the Immigration Department to try to simplify the process.

 

Thailand recently simplified the process for foreigners who want to become permanent residents. The amount of paperwork required has been slashed and the time involved reportedly cut from more than a year to about four months.

 

Last year Thailand tightened its immigration rules for South Asian tourists, who were allowed to apply for visas on arrival that permitted them to stay for 30 days. Many of them took advantage by travelling to neighbouring countries and returning to get a new visa on arrival at the airport.

 

Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand.

 

 

[Old Hippie]

"...Most believed the move could cost Thailand a small fortune...."

 

No doubt it will. oddly conflicting with campaigns to lure tourists here...then again, I think we are talking about 2 different kinds of tourists.

 

"...Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand...."

 

 

This the part that confuses me a bit. I would come to Thailand, and return to the USA. It is highly possible that I'd rack up more then 4+ entries into Thailand in a 6 month period...more if I made side trips to Cambodia, Laos, Mynmar, Vietnam etc. Now, if I never exceeded 90 days, I should be o.k. right? or are they just looking at times entered? times entered from a neighboring country? I have yet to see any clear cut Numbers given or exclusions/exemptions...

[cavanami]

"...Instead of sightseeing, these tourists have taken advantage of the visa exemption by getting married to Thai women "for reasons other than love", and have conducted business here. Many of them have not paid tax..."

 

Errrrrrrr...maybe they should start with the Thais paying tax first???

Ohhhhhhhh...could have that...easier to go after the farangs!

[bust]

Just to clarify something........"And tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand. " What if I stay for 50 days or 70 days what happens then. It sounds as though you only have to leave the kingdom for 90 days if you exhaust the Legal 90 days stay. Any thoughts?

[Old Hippie]

yeah, this is what I don't understand, as I have seen no clear numbers. Say I entered 5 times in 6 months (possible for many of us), but don't stay 90 days total, am I allowed 90 days total in a 6 month period, regardless of entries? then I need to stay out 90 days in my home country? Or am I( just allowed 3 entries total then no more for 90 days? This still needs clarification before enforced. As a lot of money could be lost, I see serious changes comming.

[Mentors]

curious to me, just a little reply here.

 

there are other forums around with much more discussions.

[Gadfly]

Errrrrrrr...maybe they should start with the Thais paying tax first???

 

In an effort to increase tax collections years ago the revenue department issued and The Nation published a list of Thailand's top 200 taxpayers. About 120 of the top tax payers were Farangs. But what was most embarrassing was the conspicuous absence of many very wealthy and influential Thais.

 

The whole fiasco was a hoot. And the revenue department has never done anything like that again.

 

I wondered what happened to the genius in the revenue department who came up with this plan?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

OH,

 

From the way I am reading this stuff it all applies to VOA's back to back. You can get two extensions after you arrive in country making a total of 90 days (but if you don't use the whole 30 days on each one it still COUNTS as a 30 day VOA toward your total). After using the 3 30 day VOA's you will need to go to your home country and get a 60 day tourist visa to return. It doesn't say you cannot come back to Thailand on a 60 day T visa from your home country (which I believe can be extended for another 30 days as well, making 90 days total). It says you cannot enter for the next 90 days on a VOA visa. If I am reading this right you CAN return during that 90 days on a regular T visa from your home consulate. (At least this is what I read it as saying-I could be wrong.)

 

So, if you have come to Thailand once on a VOA for 2 weeks and then returned to the states you can come back when ever and use another VOA for up to 30 days more. Then return to the states. Next time back you might need the Home Tourist visa, or the next time after that, I am not sure if you can enter the third time on a VOA, but I think so, as it is your last 30 days to make 90 total on a VOA.

 

But I don't see where it says anything against/about staying 90 days using the VOA, and then say, going home to the states for a week and coming back on a 60 day extendable Tourist visa from home. It just limits (it seems) the VOA back to back visas where you step into Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, and Laos, to 3 thirty day back to back VOA visas.

 

So, if this is true, one could stay for 90 days on the VOA's, then go back home and get a 60 day tourist visa which has a 30 day extension, (which you need to apply for and pay for back home). Now after that Tourist visa runs out after 90 days, you have filled the day out of country visa (VOA) requirements (90 days) and can once again use three 30 day VOA visas back to back. ????????

 

Or am I reading this wrong somehow?

 

Do you actually have to physically stay out of Thailand for 90 days? Or is it that you just cannot be using a VOA for the next 90 days for your tourist visa to enter the country?

 

Cent

[samak]

in another paragraph (see thread under legal section) it says: max 90 days within 6 month regardless the number of entries. so that's quite different than you interprete it!

[Old Hippie]

OK, so is it 90 days MAX? or 3 entries in that time frame...? regardless of how long you stay each time (as long as under 30 days)?

 

Ny next trip I was planning on BKK for a few dayts, then to Penhom Phen, back to BKK, up to Laos or Mynmar...that would make 3 entries in about 4 weeks...so would that mean I could not enter for another 90 days? even though I had stayed less than 30 total? This what is not clear.