1:20 a.m. at Nana on a Friday Night

[Hugh_Hoy]

And in front of the bars it's always "hello welcome". "hello welcome" "hello welcome".

 

Never anything different.

 

I must be special. In front of bars, the gals often beg me to "come inside please". To which I answer, "I always do. In which hole do you prefer?"

 

HH

 

[Old Hippie]

"...Thailand seems poorer than just a scant six months ago, at least out here. There is an unmistakable difference. I donâ??t think the early closings are causing this, but there is certainly more grubbiness and poverty on display now.

 

Thailand has changed over the last six months and continues to change, and you can see plenty of signs of this by simply walking down Sukhumvit after hours..."

 

 

This indeed seems the case. There seems to be more girls, and despite the rediculis prices I am being quoated at times (3k ST seems the new norm) there are plenty of bargins around...though they seem to be hitting up for more money at the end of it all "...baby need school books, need pay room..." the usual shit...plenty of girls in the bars boasting of the money they are getting from "boyfriends." BKK seems fucked at the moment...may head to Pattaya as I hear it is changing for the better...Cambodia rocked...er wait, I mean it sucked, so don't go there.

[Old Hippie]

"Thailand seems poorer than just a scant six months ago, at least out here. There is an unmistakable difference. I donâ??t think the early closings are causing this, but there is certainly more grubbiness and poverty on display now."

 

so in Thai logic are the girls are raising their prices ?

OC

 

 

 

Not the girls alone, the hotels are up, drinks, food etc...with dollar down, it is getting really bad now. The girls/mamasans are bitching that "...no hab cutomer..." I told them what do you expect with these rediculis expectations?

 

Few customers in Black and white bar the other night, was quoated 3000 for short time...add in the bar fine, and it is the same as in the states, which I told the guy who was shiulling for the girl.

 

He insisted it was her first night, and he wanted her "to have lucky." I told him HELL NO! 1) I don't discuss money up front, 2) if she is new, she doesn't/may not know waht she is doing, I want an experienced whore who knows the drill, and if I am going to train her, I will expect to be paid, as she would be learning from the best...he just stood there with a stupid look on his face as I paid my bin and left, and have not returned...

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

3000 for ST? I guess I am going to

 

Last time in Bangkok I asked one of my favorites how much for me, and it was the same price as it has been for years. No more, no less.

Generally she is good for a few hours of good fun. One of the very few women that knows exactly what I want and is willing to provide.

[torrenova]

Whilst mentioned before but not in this thread is the fact that tourists must make up a large proportion of the Nana/Cowboy etc. income.

 

Potential reasons why Bangkok is having trouble:

 

The new airport, being further away, means people are less likely to make the trip "into" Bangkok than they would previously before moving on to other places in LOS. The reverse is also true for those who previously spent the last couple of days in Bangkok.

 

Whilst Bangkok was always more expensive for hotels, necessities and companionship, the margin over other places was reasonable for a capital city. That status quo has changed. The "premium" Bangkok charges for entertainment items and to some degree for hotels is unjustified.. The girls in particular are taking the piss with their requests and the very heavily advertised move from LT to ST whilst still wanting near LT money.

 

Couple thee two fundamental shifts with the depreciating USD/GBP/EUR and you have tourists actively questioning whether they can afford to come to LOS and if they do, they will often be looking to shave expenses where they can. Avoiding Bangkok is an obvious starting point.

 

Perhaps the final nail in this coffin is the continual spiralling of airfares. Thai Airways was supposed to be subsidising fares bring loads of penniless Ivans in from Moscow but they seem to have forgotten their main markets where people actually have cash to spend. Rich Ivans can afford full price airfares.

[ChristianTroy]

That's what I call a god observation!

 

The country didn't get poorer and BKK is the most unrepresentative city for Thailand of all.

 

It is the the new rules that has been enforced on the city, it is a major loss of business, when a bar looses 20k to 30k per night than this is a major loss and when the leases increase there is no other way but firing some of the girls.

 

Down here I don't see increased desperation, actually I think Pattaya had an amazing high season which also adds up to the problems BKK has right now. Torrenova mentioned it, the people have to take care of their money a little bit more and that made large amounts of BKKist going to Pattaya!

 

Exactly what the lawmakers want, but nobody believes me!

[Gadfly]

That is not a conclusion that you draw from spontaneus and unbiased observation. To judge from your previous posts (well written and thought out as they are) you had already decided that Thailand is poorer now than six months ago (when the first anti-foreign investment rules were annonced) and you seem to use your street observations to confirm this preconceived notion. This reversal of "method" of reporting detracts from the authencity of your obserevations. I would prefer observation first and conclusion after and not the other way around.

 

Of course I am biased. And that bias may have influenced my impression, but my impression that Thailand's economic woes are starting to take their toll on the less fortunate classes is genunine. A few others here have the same impression.

 

The impression is at the end of the post. I think anyone else who took that same stroll would have reported the same events, but perhaps their impressions, as reported at the end of the post, might have differed from mine. Maybe they would have concluded, "ah, typical low season."

 

Your comments on my bias are fair.

 

On the state of the Thai economy, no one, not even the government, denies that it is slowing substantially. I will leave at that since I don't want to turn this into another debate about economic policy here. In other words, I think we can all agree that there is a slowdown, even if we disagree about what is causing the slow down.

 

My impression is that the less fortunate classes here (the vast majority of Thais) are beginning to feel this slow down. I cannot see how they wouldn't feel it. To put this in perspective, cars sales, year-on-year, were down about 30%. The middle class defers buying a new car when they lack confidence in the economy.

 

What do the poorer classes do? They face much tougher decisions than putting off the purchase of a new Honda for another year. They also feel the pinch earlier. I think they are feeling the pinch now. How could they not feel it? The question, then, is how do they react? How does this slow down manifest itself in every day life in Bangkok?

 

Could my views on this have influenced the impressions at the end of my report? Absolutely. Does it mean my impressions are wrong. I don't think so, but I suggest someone else take a similiar stroll.

 

While I certainly don't think Thailand's economic woes are caused by early closings (let's put that question to the side or another thread where I can certainly post my opinions), it is interesting to see the affects of the early closings on lower Sukhumvit. I don't recall any sidewalk bars until after the early closings (years back) started - does anyone else?

 

Will the sidewalk bars go away now if the early closings stopped (I kind of doubt it)? Are the early closings making it more difficult to have varied and more interesting nightlife? I think so. I think the earlier closings are harder on venues that are not strictly p4p (say, Q Bar) than they are on the go gos.

[bibblies]

So what are the prices you're finding then? Surely that's the bottom line, even for Thais? If they're hurting, they're going to accept a lower price - not in public, of course, but in private negotiated reality.

 

(I'm not accepting any figures from Old Hippie as representative. I've seen his face and he's a completely different economy to the rest of us. )

[ChristianTroy]

Gadfly,

 

fair post and nothing wrong with making observations and to connect them to some events such as a slowdown in Thai economy which definitely is there. No wonder when you look who is in charge! The hope was they keep the country alive and not doing major changes which they did!

 

However all I know for a fact is that the whole new regulations hit the p4p bars the worst. I know it for a fact because I have insight into the figures of 2 bars and I have recently met 2 owners from bars who are mentioned here almost on a daily basis!

 

The closing times have changed but the rhythm of the people is still the same. The most drinks will be sold when the customers getting in the mood (drunk) then they start to get careless and start throwing lady drinks and buy tequila shots etc...

Now the bars are closing at the times where the people just start to get into the mood and that causes a dramatic loss of income! The bar on SC my business partner is involved is loosing 18k per day in average over the last 6 weeks! That is 540,000 baht per month! Believe me when I tell you that this hour they stole from him was enough to pay the rent and ALL the salaries! Now since this hour is gone for good he needs to find new measurements to compensate the loss, he can't do too much with the drink prices so he gotta fire girls, service staff and others! There is no one who is going to hire them because the situation is everywhere the same. The result is more girls in the clubs who actually profit from that because it attracts more customers and there will be more board walk birds as usual! Believe it or not, I predicted that almost 7 months ago and now it is happening and it will get way way worse, because the girls who were on a salary before need to compensate the loss of income from their customers now, what will happen is that street girls ask for 3000 and more ST and the girls in the bar will say "if a freelancer charges 3000 I will charge 4000!"

 

Bookmark this post and read it in 6 months, which was what I suggested to do the last time btw!

[Gadfly]

I didn't take anyone from the street, so I don't know what they are charging. As for go gos, etc., I pay what I always paid, in large part because I go with BGs who know me (price stickiness - I have known some of these BGs for years) and because, well, I don't try to negotiate with new ones.

 

What I have noticed, however, is that (a) prices certainly aren't going up (except for drinks in Soi Cowboy) and ( I don't get any complaints when I offer girls what I normally pay. Last year I started to get some negative feedback on what I had been paying for a ST for several years now.

 

Incidentally, and I hope this doesn't take this thread too far astray, I think that overall problems in the Thai economy will have little effect on Soi Cowboy drink prices. It's showing now while Nana is not, and it's customers are primarily Farangs (tourists and expats). A beer at Bacarra was 140 Baht on Friday - even I noticed that.

 

What I think you will see, and I suspect you will like this, is more girls entering the industry. My guess is will also see more girls moonlighting to make some extra cash because times are tight.