chuckwoww Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 I'd let them figure it out. Possibly the 3 areas (shia, sunni middle and kurdish north) will 'choose' who they want. My guess is Syria and Iran will want to send 'peacekeeping' forces to the shia areas in the south. Egyptians in the Sunni middle perhaps or in the north. It will be safe to say Turkish troops won't be in the north. So what happens when a bunch of Egyptian soldiers get blown up by Moqtada's guys? Who will stop the Turks going after the PKK? Suppose the Iranians, who aren't even Arabs, decide to build a military base in Basra? Sorry to be so negative but I don't think any Arab states will ever send troops in....money and weapons yes but they know the region too well to get involved directly. I do hear some talk about the UN getting more involved. But too many people in Iraq blame the UN for the 12 years of sanctions. Last time they tried they got blown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 This sounds unsympathetic but the answer is its their problem, let them sort it all out. I'm like the guy in Apocolypse Now who tells Robert Duvall "..but sir that's Charlie's beach" and the U.S. is saying "Charlie don't surf!' Its their region. There is really nothing we can do to stop them from killing each other. Economic boycotts are all we have and that's weak. The middle east is a different kettle of fish. We're all on this earth together and should fight for a world peace for all humanity but the reality is there are certain regions where outsiders can not go and change things. The middle east is one. I agree that the Arab League probably won't get involved. What I would do if I were the next President is publicly say 'While I acknowledge that we went in there uninvited, its ultimately a Middle East problem and they will have to solve it, we are only making it worse being there. I ask the Arab League to step in, show leadership and take care of their own. We'll provide some financial help with materials and such for peacekeeping efforts but the former administration was wrong for being physically in the region. The people do not want us there and have told us in the loudest possible voice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nope. It's America's problem. You destroyed the only real secular Arab state. Sure they've been fighting each other for years but so have the Europeans. Iraq represented a ray of hope for a lot of pan-Arabs. Now it's a mess. I think the US can help Iraq but it's going to take a fundamental change of attitude. Forget the big embassy and the permanent military bases. Forget dictating who gets the juicy oil contracts. Give them decent access to the gulf, something they've wanted for years. Guard the pipelines properly. Let the Sunnis run Kirkuk. Stop pandering to the Kuwaitis and the Kurds. Start putting the Iraqi people's interests ahead of the US and Israel and you will find them eternally grateful. Al Quaida will disappear. You may even be invited to stay. How's that for optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck6660 Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nope. It's America's problem. You destroyed the only real secular Arab state. Sure they've been fighting each other for years but so have the Europeans. Iraq represented a ray of hope for a lot of pan-Arabs. Now it's a mess. I think the US can help Iraq but it's going to take a fundamental change of attitude. Forget the big embassy and the permanent military bases. Forget dictating who gets the juicy oil contracts. Give them decent access to the gulf, something they've wanted for years. Guard the pipelines properly. Let the Sunnis run Kirkuk. Stop pandering to the Kuwaitis and the Kurds. Start putting the Iraqi people's interests ahead of the US and Israel and you will find them eternally grateful. Al Quaida will disappear. You may even be invited to stay. How's that for optimism? Wow Chuck, That is "Waay" too optomistic. The ethnic and religious tension in Iraq has always been there...saddam controlled it through the application of ruthless force. I wish the US had never invaded and disposed Saddam, he was a lesser evil than Al-Qaida and Iran. Now the US is in middle of a nasty civil war which may lead to large scale genocide once the US pulls out, and the US is going to pull out, eventually. The Arab states will not come to rescue...they have the same religous ethnic divisions. Saudi's will support the Sunni's, Iran and Syria support the Shiites, and the last thing the Turks want is a free Kurdish state on their southern border. My prediction is for a bloddy civil war once the uS pulls out. The Iraqi politician's are already manuevering for a good position, this is why they have achieved so little, no one wants to give up power. For they know, armageddon is coming. :onfire: Maybe if the US had deposed Saddam, had a UN stability force follow on, and employed the Iraqi Army and Police in re-building the country's infrastructe. Nah...would never work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Iraq reminds me of a hand grenade with the pin pulled and thrown away. The US is trying to hold on, but sooner or later will have to let go. When it does, run like hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 If the US had had a real reason, with genuine evidence to invade, then maybe the UN would've gotten involved...however, 'dodgy' dossiers, rhetoric, unsubstantiated allegations, gross manipulation, obvious agendas contrary to the publically stated aims and out and out bullshit, scuppered that... I still recall vividly the anti-French crap...'freedom' fries...55555....really...The Bush administration created such a fervour. It's embarassing to the US to look back on that period. The doubters and nay sayers were right....Bush and his junta tried to humiliate those who opposed them. Unforgiveable behaviour. I'm not aware Bush and his cronies have ever publically acknowledged the hype and the insults to other non-complying nations. I doubt they ever will. Taking responsibility is not something actively participated in by this administration. You reap what you sow. Som nom na. I just feel so sad for the Iraqi people. They lost a tyrant to gain civil war, daily mass murder, terrorism, division and religious extremism. Iraq is ripe to become the next Afganistan after the military 'might' vanishes with its tail between its legs. What an appalling mess, what an atrocious and incompetant military operation. Bush et al. should beg for forgiveness to the Iraqi people. Getting the UN in is the only real option, but it can't happen due to the division caused by the arrogance and incompetence of this administration. Maybe the new president can garner enough support. Fresh face, no history of humiliating opponents and not George W Bush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCorinthian Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 The Military end of the war is 100% success if you count it by "battles won." It is the politics that is a total embarrassment. If it had been a flat out military campaign we would have been gone from the area 6 months after the war kicked off. But the trade off would have been the Iraqis just slaughtering them selves as they are now, just on a much larger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nope. It's America's problem. You destroyed the only real secular Arab state. Sure they've been fighting each other for years but so have the Europeans. Iraq represented a ray of hope for a lot of pan-Arabs. Now it's a mess. I think the US can help Iraq but it's going to take a fundamental change of attitude. Forget the big embassy and the permanent military bases. Forget dictating who gets the juicy oil contracts. Give them decent access to the gulf, something they've wanted for years. Guard the pipelines properly. Let the Sunnis run Kirkuk. Stop pandering to the Kuwaitis and the Kurds. Start putting the Iraqi people's interests ahead of the US and Israel and you will find them eternally grateful. Al Quaida will disappear. You may even be invited to stay. How's that for optimism? Totally agree we started the mess. But our continued involvement is making things better than worse. Our mere presence of Americans (and other western troops) there invites insurgents and terrorists not only to Iraq but for domestic terrorism in our countries. We leave its their oil once again, 100% their oil. As for guarding the pipeline properly. Again, if we guard it makes the pipeline less secure. I think no matter what civil war is inevitble. Iraq will be 2 or 3 separate states. Its meant to be. The 3 groups couldn't live together without a dictator who ruled violently and ruthlessly. That state can not be ruled any other way as it stands right now. So, separate states may be the only option for peace. That can either happen peacefully, in a brokered deal or it may happen via civil war. In any event, U.S. presense makes things worse and any option that involves our direct involvement destabalizes the situation. Any help that does NOT involve physically being there is what we should do. Economic and other aid is what we should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 It's almost to the point now where muslims will do whatever is most likely to annoy Bush. I don't have links but I've heard the vote against Siniora in a Lebanese by-election was basically an anti-American protest. Same in Pakistan where Musharraf is seen as a puppet. The Saudis aren't showing any enthusiasm for Bush's Mid East 'peace meeting' and an Iraqi politician said the other day that the Iraqi parliament going on holiday was a protest against American meddling. With Rove and Snow gone all he's got left is Barney & Dead Eye Dick. The man's a lame duck in other words....still dangerous though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Which is why we need to leave the region completely. We're doing more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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