Welcome to America, bitch!

[Steve]

Bush's presidential talk this mornng Thursday) had an eye opener. He claimed we (USA) are the only FREE country.

 

You'd laugh instead of cry if the administration wasn't so off the mark about things. Just my feeling and I could be wrong but everyone and I'd include Republicans just want to get on with a new administration as soon as possible and the elections can't come soon enough.

 

Strange but I think history won't be as unkind as we think it will be. At least in America. When Nixon is remmembered somewhat fondly and his obvious faults overlooked, I'd say Bush has a 50/50 chance of getting similar treatment. Johnson is remembered more for helping with Civil Rights than for expanding the Vietnam war. You'd have to go back to possibly Hoover who was blamed for the Great Depression to find a president that is remembered badly on all accounts.

 

A lot of Russians are longing for the days of Stalin so anything is possible.

 

For the Brits on here, are the former PMs remembered similarly as well? The Iron Lady seems to get fairly good press nowadays and she certainly was a polarizing figure in England. How will Blair fare?

[SpiceMan]

For the Brits on here, are the former PMs remembered similarly as well? The Iron Lady seems to get fairly good press nowadays and she certainly was a polarizing figure in England. How will Blair fare?

 

Mrs Thatcher was a right winger who transformed the British economy. The British population were pleaseed to be better off and they abandoned socialism. She is widely remembered as somebody who made us richer. There was no single issue that would make her unforgivable now, except perhaps the Poll Tax. But even that is becoming a distance memory.

 

Blair was a populist Prime Minister who had record high support during his first term. In his second term he was not particularly unpopular. The gulf war was the single issue that damaged his popularity. That will be forgotten in time. Quickly if the UK withdraws from Iraq next year.

 

[Flashermac]

Would it have been worse than the Soviet control of Eastern Europe? (Provided you weren't a Jew - but even then Hitler planned to move all the Jews to the Crimea, not kill them.) Hitler moved around borders and people. Stalin moved borders even more and expelled many more people from their homes. Hitler killed off the Polish intelligensia. Stalin killed off the Polish intelligensia.

 

Incidentally, Hitler was shocked when Britain and Frnce declared war in Sept 1939. He's recorded as yelling at Ribbentrop (I think), YOU TOLD ME THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN! YOU TOLD ME THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN!

 

Britain and France had let Hitler have everything else he wanted - Austria, the Sudentenland. The "Polish corridor" also had a largely ethnic German population and Danzig was nearly 100% German. Hitler honestly believed he'd be allowed to take it too. Somebody screwed up big time on showing him where the line had been drawn.

 

 

[carew66]

A very heavy biography of Lord Londonderry, 'Making friends with Hitler' is worth reading. Fascinating stuff is history, innit?

 

Placed in the context of the general mood of the population in Britain regarding a war with anyone in the wake of the Great War and the actions of the politicos of the day become more understandable.

[Flashermac]

William Shirer was in Berlin when WWII began. He wrote that people were stunned! They couldn't believe that another war had begun, when they had suffered so much during and after the last one that had ended just 20 years before. WWI began with cheers and patriotic songs in the capitals of every country involved. WWII began with shocked silence. Not even Hitler had wanted it and had figured if war was to come, it wouldn't be before 1950 anyway. That's why he signed the pact with Stalin to make sure things stayed that way.

 

 

 

 

[chuck6660]

One of FDR's sons was a Marine officer in the South Pacific. Led an attack on a Japanese held island. (Accidentally left behind a few Marines, who got whacked after they were captured.)

 

Teddy Roosevelt - though out of office - had been ranting and raving about getting the US into WWI. When the US did, TR's son became a fighter pilot. Got shot down and killed.

 

Wonder if any of the younger Kennedys have ever worn a uniform (besides Boy Scouts).

 

 

President Theodore Roosevelts son Teddy was a Brigadier Ceneral in WWII.

 

During D-Day he was the only US General officer to go asore in the first wave, leading the 4th Infantry Division ashore at Utah Beach. He would be awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions that day. After learning that the divsion had landed several hundred meters off their objective he was qouted as replying "Weâ??ll start the war from right here!"

 

He would die of a heart attack weeks later in France.

 

 

[Flashermac]

You're right. I've read about that. Strange way to go ... of a heart attack. A fair number of generals did get killed in combat in WWII. Not likely nowadays.

 

Here's the WWI son:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Roosevelt

 

 

[chuck6660]

Boy, how times have changed!

 

The whole country was at war during WWII, the poor and the rich. Former Presidents had sons fighting, rich families such as the Roosevelts and Kennedy's lost sons. Actor's (Jimmy Stewart) and athletes (Ted Williams) stopped their careers to do duty for their country.

 

Today, you see no such committment. The average American hardly knows there is a war going on.

[..]

Swinging back to the original subject, here's the story in the chick's own words.

 

All that for a three week overstay 12 years ago. And it wasn't even the first time back in the States since then.

 

Simply disgraceful. Disallow entry? Sure, that's their right. But the felony criminal treatment? No excuse.

 

Regards,

SD

[Flashermac]

We're having a discussion here. Would you mind not bringing up the topic!