Welcome to America, bitch!

[..]

...America doesn't live up to it any more than any individual tries to live up to their own personal goals of living a life of truth and integrity. Not achieving it is normal. Admitting you're not isn't.

I agree with the sentiment, but I cannot ever recall when America admitted to NOT being the A#1 moral authority on everything, despite falling short there. That's my issue. Yes, absolutely, I hold my country to higher standards and judge it harsher than anyplace else. I do the same with my kids ("I don't care if everyone else is doing it..."). Why? Because I love them and want them to be better than everyone else.

 

I don't get how folks can NOT do this yet still claim to love the country. Are you really satisfied with "we are not as bad as " versus being the best? WTF?

 

Regards,

SD

[Steve]

The US fighting for democracy? Please, they have supported every brutal right wing dictator during my life time. Furthermore they supported Saddam Hussein in the war that he started against Iran. They also basically created Usama bin Laden. Only reason being that he was against the Soviet Union.

Furthermore they supported Pol Pot, the only reason being that he was fighting against the Vietnamese who had kicked major arse with the the American invadors.

 

 

Always easy to judge with 20/20 hindsight. Pol Pot had his genocide AFTER America left the region and Bin Laden the same AFTER the war in Afganistan was over.

Using your logic then the allies should not have allied with the USSR during WW2? At least Pol Pot's and the Bin Laden's future atrocities were unforseen, we all knew what Stalin was about when we all asked him to join. He spent the 1930s purging his country.

 

As you know in every war, choices are made and the doctrine of the enemy of my enemy is my friend has always ruled in all wars, just and unjust alike.

 

There are rarely any black and white ways to look at things. Even countries that are regarded as evil can claim to do some good somewhere. Just as how good countries can do some things that can be viewed as not so good. For instance your own Sweden makes it mandatory for immigrants to learn Swedish before they can become citizens. I'm not saying that is a wrong thing to do but if America did it many would say we were xenophobic and unwelcoming to foriegners. America (as well as England and others) don't require that, not even countries regarded as oppressive force people wanting citizenship to do that. Again, just as an example of something that countries with good reputations like Sweden does that could be regarded as unenlightened.

 

As for my stats on Sweden, you made the claim that less were visiting and I simply pointed out otherwise.

 

I'll be accused of appplying feelings to you that aren't warranted but I'd guess (and admittedly could be very wrong) that you may be 'afraid' to visit because you may have to face your views about the place head on and proven wrong and its more comfortable to despise something from far away. Similar to how many of our friends on this forum will have stereotypes about LOS and even when told its different would rather not visit and have their stereotypes proven incorrect. Again, a guess and you have every right to say it isn't so, just my humble opinion.

 

Finally, as much as America f**ks up. And we do it royally, no question, my guess is the last thing europeans want is a return to America's self isolationism culture pre WW2. There is this weird schizophrenic feeling of we hate you/are afraid of you/are jealous of you but need you (economically, politically, militarily) mind that europeans seem to have about America. Fascinating to some extent.

 

 

[..]

Some folks postulate that Hiroshima & Nagasaki were not for ending the war (as the Japanese were already defeated for the most part), but a show of power to keep Stalin under control.

 

Cheers,

SD

[SpiceMan]

There is this weird schizophrenic feeling of we hate you/are afraid of you/are jealous of you but need you (economically, politically, militarily) mind that europeans seem to have about America. Fascinating to some extent.

 

Yes it is. On the one hand Europe imports massive amounts of American culture, movies, music, fast food restaurant chains, etc. and on the other hand many Europeans remain aloof and smug about the US. This love/hate relationship smacks of a combined inferiority/superiority complex.

[Faustian]

Just a thought in the comparison between powerful nation states...

 

The USA has been set up to be better. 'The land of opportunity'...'the American dream'....theoretically America has represented something 'better'...'democracy' and 'freedom' of opinions and expression. I love the country and the people i've met. My negative feelings toward America stem from the continual repeated failings of this great nation to actually 'do' something better. It is the number 1 most powerful nation on earth. With such power comes responsibility. Unfortunately the establishment who run the country seem set on a course of self perpetuation, lining their pockets. I don't feel the 'elite' have Americas and certainly not the worlds, best interests at heart. They are looking after number 1...themselves...they are using the system to maintain this power and they aren't going to let it go. The 'normal' people are fed crap and live in ignorance. Sadly the only changes of late seem to be the establishment tightening their grip.

 

For me Russia and China are far worse in every regard than America. They deserve scorn and criticism. However, they also represent failed, close societies. The establishment in both countries have unassailable power. America represents an opportunity, Russia and China represent failure and loss.

 

If anything an open society allows criticism, the hope for something better, from someone, it's just a shame that 'someone' is elusive. An open society should welcome criticism. Development and progress are part of criticism.

[Faustian]

There is this weird schizophrenic feeling of we hate you/are afraid of you/are jealous of you but need you (economically' date=' politically, militarily) mind that europeans seem to have about America. Fascinating to some extent.

[/quote']

 

Yes it is. On the one hand Europe imports massive amounts of American culture, movies, music, fast food restaurant chains, etc. and on the other hand many Europeans remain aloof and smug about the US. This love/hate relationship smacks of a combined inferiority/superiority complex.

 

I presume you are an American then? Do you view America as 'better', 'superior' even? Or do you feel it's the Europeans who feel inferior?

 

[chuck6660]

Some folks postulate that Hiroshima & Nagasaki were not for ending the war (as the Japanese were already defeated for the most part), but a show of power to keep Stalin under control.

 

Cheers,

SD

 

OH NO! Not another conspiracy theorist.

 

Read the history books...not the Japanese version. Watch the History Channel not the Sopranos.

 

An invasion of the Japanese homeland would have killed many times more Japanese than the atomic bombs, and more importantly to Harry Truman, many more US lives. The Imperial Japanese were preparing to use every available person to fight the invaders, even armed with spears.

 

The Japanese should Thank the US for using the A-bomb; otherwise they may never have been born, and the northern half of Japan would be part of the USSR.

[SpiceMan]

Faustian, I am English. It seems many Europeans (including Brits) have an inferiority complex due to the success of America. They compensate by claiming to be superior to the point of smugness.

[ALHOLK]

Always easy to judge with 20/20 hindsight. Pol Pot had his genocide AFTER America left the region

 

Pol Pot's genocide had gone on for quite some time when the Vietnamese invaded. It was during this war that the US supported Pol Pot knowing that he was a genocidal maniac.

 

For instance your own Sweden makes it mandatory for immigrants to learn Swedish before they can become citizens.

 

Again you display your total lack of knowledge of Sweden. This is plain untrue. Personally I think it should be like that and just as you said the pc crowd starts yelling xenophobic and racist if it's mentioned.

 

As for my stats on Sweden, you made the claim that less were visiting and I simply pointed out otherwise.

 

I suggest that you reread my previous post. When I was young almost 100% of the Swedes wanted to visit your country, Today I can assure you that the percentage is much lower.

 

I'll be accused of appplying feelings to you that aren't warranted but I'd guess (and admittedly could be very wrong) that you may be 'afraid' to visit because you may have to face your views about the place head on and proven wrong and its more comfortable to despise

 

Again you are wrong. Why should I be afraid of visiting your country. I just don't have a great interest in doing it. Both my time and and funds are limited. If I have a choice between visiting the US and Thaland you could try to guess what I would choose. Furthermore you seem to have gotten the wrong impression of my views on your country and it's inhabitants. After all I grew up with American music (at least partly) and American movies and my parents came from North Aerica although from a more peaceful country. It is what your country does out in the world that pisses me off.

 

 

 

[Flashermac]

My dad's outfit (186st FA Battalion, US 1st Army) was in Czechoslovakia when the European war ended in May 1945. They were scheduled to board troops ships, cross the Atlantic, then go by rail to California and board more troop ships for the invasion of Japan. The entire First Army was to go, along with Pattons 3rd Army. The bombs stopped that invasion - and probably saved millions of lives on both sides.

 

Odd that people protest the nukes as inhuman, but don't say much about the Allied fire bombings of German and Japanese cities - which were deliberately meant to kill civilians and claimed far more lives than the two Atomic bombs did.

 

p.s. It is now known that the Nipponese were indeed looking for a way to end the war before the bombs were dropped. Unfortunately, they approached the Soviets, and Stalin wasn't about to pass on the message. Seems FDR had promised the Russians southern Sakhalin and the Chishima (now Kurile) Islands in return for Soviet support in the attack on Japan. "Uncle" Joe wasn't about to lose that by ending the war sooner.