Economical situation in LOS???

[Hardy641]

Instead of reading my post carefully and proofing me wrong you are switching into personal attack mode. You even did not get the point of my post, donâ??t you?

 

Once again I perfectly know how to get around these laws but by doing so the normal Thai people are losing out. At the end these laws harm country more than me. Thatâ??s why I absolutely donâ??t understand why Thailand does not finally scrap these regulations.

 

If I get locally only an amount that comfortably qualifies me for a work permit, who is losing? Multiply this with thousands of expats doing the same, Thailand is missing a significant amount on tax return.

 

Same accounts for the legal ownership of companies and homes. Again there are many ways to get around, legal ones, some in the gray zone and other fully illegal. Again the loser is Thailand as through its outdated, discriminating laws many possible serious investors are going somewhere else. Instead it attracts more shady investors who prefer to play in the gray area.

 

Regarding bank loans I and several friends have spoken with most major banks and the response has been negative. I am also aware that this is Thailand and regulations might change overnight (another major shortcoming which keeps away investors and harms the country). Sorry, but I am too busy to discuss this issue over and over again with my bankers. Thus, if you got reliable information that a bank in Thailand is offering mortgages to foreigners, please let me know. I am sure several other board members would be interested too.

 

Until then I stand firm: There are no mortgages available for foreigners in Thailand.

To prove my point got to below link and see mortgages in Thailand.

 

http://www.hamptons-mortgages.com/buyingThailand.html

 

[FIGJAM]

Further proof that the Romans were full of shit...

 

Where have I ever made referance to Certified income to a Thai's certified income, I referred to the fact that I found your argument that YOUR goverment would not issue the paperwork to comply with the requirments of Thai immigration was in some way attributed to Thai Immigration.

I can't even begin to imagine how thick one can be to not realize how fucking absurd is for the Thailand's government to ask other countries' embassies something which the Thais know that they don't usually issue and [color:red]WHICH THEIR VERY OWN EMBASSIES WILL NOT ISSUE[/color].

 

(3rd time I'm repeating this, will this be the time you get it?)

 

If you were to read the "800,000 Baht for Retiremnt Visa" thread you will see posters there stating that they have had certified income statements from their embassey to support visa application.

Nowhere are there the words "certification" and "certified" about a monthly income. A poster is talking about a "notarized statement from the embassy that said that they had income for more than 800kb per year". It sounds just like the "official looking embassy stamp" on who knows what kind of statement and made by who which I mentioned as a trick... AFAIK, you do not notarize the original copy of an embassy issued certificate so they are almost certainly not talking about what the Thai laws requires.

 

And even if they did, most other embassies don't do that. Some do but only if the income is from the govt.

 

Further proof that the poster might be a bit confused about what it is, exactly, that document, is that he is using it totally unnecessarily to prove that the money he needs for an extension of stay (on retirement) comes from abroad.

 

If in the future event that I do need 800K here to meet immigration requirements I already have a long term investment account in Thailand, I only hold 50K THB in it Approx 1000 EU it pays 3,25% so compared to the 6.77% I am getting offshore it is losing me 34.52 EU per annum or less than 150 Baht a month to have the account. If I needed a traced 800K in Thai Bank I could make a SWIFT Internet transfer tomorrow and have 800K here losing me 528 EU Per annum or approx 2,200 THB / Month, a small price to pay for a legal visa.

Is this meant to be a reply to something I said or asked? Who has ever talked or asked about "retirement visas"? Over 50 year olds have, currently, the easier time getting a 1 year extension of stay.

"Of course", retirement visas do not qualify for PR so you will never get PR by living in Thailand on a "retirement visa". You would be planning your and your family's future 1 year at a time and when they change the requirements they have ALREADY proved that:

1. they not always grant "grandfathering" provisions

2. they think nothing about doubling the financial requs, so next hike it might be 1,600,000 Baht and then 3,200,000...

Sounds great, doesn't it?

BTW, I am 32 yo.

 

In your prevous postings you mentioned in passing how you derived your income from property investments, surely based on your investment knowledge you can see that to secure a long term existance in Thailand is not that expensive, just an indirect term of taxation.

There is no way for me to FULLY LEGALLY get PR nor citizenship.

I have already said how you can always trich, cheat and bribe your way around and that's exactly how I would "secure a long term existance in Thailand" (though "secure" is all but the right word...) if I went back as a single sexpat.

As a family man, I don't plan my family'future around tricks, cheats, bribes and legal loopholes. You are, of course, absolutely free to play that game with your and your loved ones' lives...

 

People who blame their plights on "Goverment Rules" are the ones who are prepared to be Governed, wheras outward thinking individuals accepet that Rules are Rules , work out the easiest / cheapest way to comply and get on with life.

As with most other things, you have it backwards.

It's the ones who are prepared to be passively governed who don't question the rules and don't ask for improvements!

The outward thinking individuals are the ones who try to change the status quo for the betterment of one's situation and for the good of the rest of the society! Unfortunately, they often find on their path sheep like you fully prepared and, seemingly, even happy to bend over and take it all up the ass without as much as a meek protest on a message board...

 

You may like to Think of me as an Apologist, I concider myself more of a Realist.

You a realist?!? You can't even see the faults in the Thai immigration laws pretending from other countries something which they themselves are THE FIRST TO NOT DO!

You are the epitome of the Thai apologists!

 

Making comparisions between immigration policies of comparative nations, the majority of nationalities can come to Thailand on a 15 or 30 Day Visa on Arrival simple as that for a Thai to get a visa to the EU takes a lot more effort.

Not correct! For a Thai to get a TOURIST visa to the EU takes a lot more effort.

[FIGJAM]

Before the wife and I got married she needed a visa back to the UK, a niece of mine who spent 6 months in Thailand and a lot of time with us in her gap year and also came here on vaction once she got back and was working was killed in an accident and my (now) wife wanted to be at the funeral. Visa would not be fast-tracked not withstanding the fact that my wife has expired educational visa from the States, Tourist Visas from Canada, Australia and the UK and EU Work Permit, on top of which she had the housebook and was working for a MNC and had all reasons to return to Thailand yet the visa was issued 3 days afrter the funeral, you tell me which system is worse.

The reasons for which tourist visas are easy to come by for Westerners in Thailand and harder for Thais in the West are so obvious that only smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists can't see them...

 

OK, what we first have to do, is to realize that the vast majority of those Thais asking for tourist visas to the West are women. Try looking for the official stats about Thai immigration in your homecountries and most likely you will find that, like in my own homecountry, much more than 50% (in Italy it's around 75-80%) of the Thais residing in Western (and not only) countries are women.

Try asking yourself why and you will see how genuine a tourist those folks asking for tourist visas are and how much of Thai money are they going to spend as tourists in our homecountries...

 

Ask yourself:

 

A. How many Thais want to come to Western countries for genuine tourism and how many to work/live as a dependant? How many Westerners come to Thailand for genuine tourism and how many to work/live as a dependant?

 

B. How many of those Thais (legally and illegally) working in the West send back home the money they make in the West? How many Westerners (legally and illegally) working in Thailand send back home the money they make in Thailand?

 

C. How many Thais touring/working/living in the West exploit the countless benefits, grants and welfare state type of services the Western countries offer to their citizens and foreigners? How many Westerners touring/working/living in Thailand exploit the almost non-existent benefits, grants and welfare state type of services Thailand offers to its own citizens and the pratically zero (as in nothing, nada, zilch, nawt, zip) benefits, grants and welfare state type of services Thailand offers to foreigners?

 

D. To the countries Thailand grants easy access (basically 1st world countries) the West grants easier access (for example, free 3 months permits of stay on arrival for Americans). Besides, Thailand (like everyone else) has different visas and immi regs for different nationalities and some of them (not from Western nor 1st world countries) have an easier time than us.

 

E. All people write about are always Western tourist visa, what about Western PR laws, Western citizenship laws and how they compare to their Thai equivalents?

 

There are very good reasons (reply to the points A, B and C and you may see them by yourself) for which tourist visas are easier to come by for a 1st world country's citizen than for a 3rd world banana republic/military junta country's citizen...

 

There have also been written some other untruths in this thread by others such as :-

 

Farang Cannot Own property in Thailand Oh Yes We Can, Check the Rules on Condominium Ownership

Condos are the ONLY property we can own and ONLY up to 49% of each building and ONLY in certain designated areas (ghettos).

IIRC, not too long ago foreigners were even forbidden to own ground floor units as they rest on the sacred Thai soil..!

 

So, what about restricting Thai ownership rights in our homecountries only to condos, only up to 49% and only in designated ghettos?

Give me your realist opinion.

 

Farang Cannot Get Property Loans Oh Yes we can, 50% loan on a Condo based on Income or Collateral to Support Such

Westerners in Thailand get different and much worse conditions than the Thais (when they are even allowed, BTW few Thai banks do that... through Singapore branches!), this doesn't happen in my homecountry (suspect, but dunno for sure, it's the same elsewhere in the West).

 

Westerners in Thailand very often get lower interests than the Thais in Thai banks!

This doesn't happen in my homecountry (AFAIK it's the same everywhere in the West).

 

Farang Cannot Own Land Give the Company Route a miss and go for long term (100 years) Tenancy based on Marriage

 

Do land deals come with wives in Thailand?

 

That aside, tell us your legal set up and I will point out the pitfalls for each of them...

For starters, long term "tenancies" of 100 years aren't recognized by Thai law.

 

Realists know that...

 

I could go on and on but I wont bother,

 

To post more crap?

 

but the bottom line is rather than complain about a situation one should just accept the rules learn the tricks and continue with the game of life, It cannot be that difficult since I am able to play it.

The situation is that my Thai wife can FULLY LEGALLY stay and plan her life for the long term in my homecountry, I CANNOT in hers.

 

What you are "able to play" is your family's future on the bet that you will be granted the next 1 year extension. You have put your and your loved ones' lives are at the mercy of the very voluble and ever changing 3rd world Thai immigration laws.

 

I don't make my family play these dangerous games and I don't gamble my and my loved ones' future.

[FIGJAM]

I'm getting chased for a home loan by Autuyia Bank - quite possible. See what the bloke above wrote.

I know that's possible. It's very hard though and at very bad (and much worse than what even the most undependable Thai customers get) conditions.

 

So, can you detail the conditions offered?

[cavanami]

Family member just bought s new motorsai, on monthly payments.

5,000 baht down.

3,600 baht per month for the next two years on a

50,000 motorsai.

 

At the end of the two years he will have paid

41,400 in interest!

 

Say like 75% simple interest? This is loan shark or credit card interest! No break for this Thai!!!

[drogon]

To buy a condo in Thailand here are my choices:

 

- Use a part of my savings and buy it "cash":

Not the best option my savings are better left where they are.

 

- Loan from BKK bank: As I said above, I can either have it financed up to 70% or 100%, my condo back here as collateral and I am pretty sure that it can be possible to skip it.

 

The condo value does not have to be 200K $+ contrary to what is written on some website/forums

 

- Get a loan from some banks in Europe:

I received offers from a few European banks.

As the loan is to buy a condo in a foreign country

(outside Europe)

 

. No bank is willing to give me a mortgage loan

. I can only get a personal loan: Rates are far worse than the BKK bank conditions for expats.

(8% with bkk bank, between 12.5 up to 14% with European banks)

. With all the EU banks, they ask my EU condo as collateral

. Banks in Spain ask a personal guaranty

 

All in all, I am better off using my savings

(which I do not want as they are better left on the account growing more each year)

or use bkk bank Singapore....

 

Just a point, Thais can get better mortgage conditions.

This is exactly the same here in Europe....

 

If you are not a national of the country, all the bullshit about (when you are a EU citizen) having the same banking rights everywhere in euro zone is just that, bullshit.

 

As soon as you open a bank account in a EU country while working there -> you receive mortgage offers but only if you buy some property in the very same country.

 

A few banks offer mortgage loans to people who want to buy some property elsewhere than in their current country of residence.

(IE: Mortgage loans which were granted to UK citizens residents in the UK who wanted to buy property in Spain).

 

If someone ever heard about a EU bank granting a mortgage loan to a EU citizen to buy property outside the EU, please tell me...

 

 

 

 

 

[CTO]

I'm not a Thai apologists - many things here are awful and stacked against Farangs - it's far easier for a Thai going to other countries to get better "Deals" than we do here.

 

But that doesn't mean you can't get deals here either.

 

There are no absolutes - shades of gray - depends on knowing the local ways and getting them to work for you.

[drogon]

If I was rich enough to do so.

 

I would open a MP in Spain, either Madrid or Barcelona. (this is quite legal to do so)

 

When I see the "agua y masaje" place doing a hell of a trade...(this is a kind of oily naughty massage like angels massage soi 22)

-> and they only have 5 Estern European ladies.

 

I guess that it would be great to open a place

like "nataree" on a small scale to begin with.

 

Basic calculations:

Renting cost, refurbishing costs, visa costs, functioning costs.

200 euros for 90 minutes: 100 for the TG and 100 for the business...

10 girls to begin with: 3 session per day/per TG.

 

For the TG = 100 x 3 x 25= 7500 euros/girl/month income

 

For the business = 7500 x 10 = 75K euros/month revenues, ad to this taxes etc...not bad

 

No investors looking for a quick ROI?

 

:grin:

[Hardy641]

CTO,

Never said you are Thai apologist. Actually you are the only one who came up with a bank supposedly offering loans to foreigners. However, we checked with Ayutthaya Bank ( I suppose that is the bankâ??s name you mentioned) and they told my financial director that it is not possible for foreigners to get a mortgage to invest in real estate.

 

Drogon,

I know the options to investment in real estate in Thailand pretty well. However, I am currently anyway not really interested to buy a condo â?? except I could get a longterm mortgage in THB, because I am convinced the THB will depreciate significantly over the next years. Thus it would be financially interesting but only if the loan is granted in TBH, which isnâ??t possible for foreigners â?? at least as far I know.

 

Anyway to reiterate the point I want to make here; I am not whining about personal disadvantages. I live here long enough to get around well. I want these regulations to be scrapped to improve the investment climate and give the stutteing economy a much needed boost. If Thailand wants to take the next step, these discriminating laws have to go.

 

[CTO]

Hardy - maybe it's my fault misleading you slightly - loan would be to both myself and wife - not me alone.

 

That said they are also happy to give me a personal loan - me the Farang.