Economical situation in LOS???

[FIGJAM]

- Dealing with the Italian adminstration was a nightmare...worst than dealing with the Spanish one.

Where is dealing with any adminstration a pleasure?

And, BTW, care to give some examples or do we just have to take your word?

 

I suspect that most of your problems comes from not speaking the language. The average Italian's English sucks big time.

Anyway, you say you speak Spanish. I don't but I can perfectly "survive" in Spain speaking Italian and can understand most of what a Spanish says, I can browse Spanish websites and understand most of them.

In my uni we have just had 3 Spanish exchange students on ERASMUS, they didn't undertake any Italian class before coming...

 

- Hotel stay: It was fully paid by the company but the hotel tried to rip me off about the mini bar (and not only once)

WOW, I am shocked.

I am sure it only happens in Thailand, Italy and few other 3rd world countries.

 

- Playing the tourist on the week end: They probably mistook me for a rich Asian tourist and thus it was a touts nightmare (not even talking about the taxis), Thailand is not worst

You mean you have had people actually walking up to you and touting their stuff? Where? Who (illegal North Africans selling bootlegs?)? What ther were touting?

 

- Police: I have never been controlled by the police in my life (apart at the airports) except there and this twice by the "carabinieri"...

So F what?? Are you really complaining because the police have controlled you??

Have they tried to shake you down? Have they planted drugs on you? Have they jailed you because you didn't have your passport on you? Have they fined you for throwing a butt on the ground and pocketed the money? Have they fined you for something you didn't do?

 

One day I was going to work and I was late, got stopped and asked to show my ID/passport -> I lost 40 minutes because they asked me to go to the police station as of course they could not understand what I was saying...And I was not ready to try to understand their Italian.

Did you have an ID/passport with you??

 

Need more?

More of what? Apart from a vague hotel scam on your mini-bar you have offered NOTHING.

 

No country is perfect, Thailand is far from perfect but up to now, I got less problems in Thailand than in some European countries...

Well, if life in Thailand is so much easier and trouble-free why aren't you still working in Thailand (have you ever worked there BTW?)? Just because of the bigger pay?

[FIGJAM]

Drogon,

 

You're spot on - as 'charming' as Italy may sound to the romantics, wine & Mediterranean food lovers whatever it IS the biggest hassle & hustler in western Europe (EU) by far

 

First of all, Western Europe is not the same as the European Union and that alone shows how much you know about what you're talking about...

 

Western Europe: United Kingdom, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Vatican City, San Marino, Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Malta.

 

The European Union: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom.

 

I freely admit that in terms of "hassle & hustler" Italy is amongst the worst Western European countries (still better than countries like Spain, Portugal and Greece and not much worse than France anyway).

 

But when you compare Italy to the EU contries it definitely scores in the higher half of the rank.

 

Sure with Asian looks it probably doesn't help especially if in one of the hot spots for the Asian group tours

Italy gets over 3 times the tourists Thailand gets and rich Japanese and South Koreans are here in numbers since many years so yes, they got quite a "reputation" as people who pay big prices without battering an eyelid (like anywhere else they go anyway)

 

P.S. That said, prices and services must have price tags in Italy...

[FIGJAM]

Not that I am a fan of Berlusconi. But he doesn't deserve to be put into the same category as the mass murderers Samak and Thaksin.

Yes, it seemed a "tad" funny how the democratically elected leader of the seventh largest economy in the world, the fourth largest in Europe, a member of the G7, a founding member of the European Union (with West Germany, France and Benelux) and one of the few net contributors to the EU, in short, one of the biggest and powerful democracies in the world is likened by some, here, to the leaders of some backwater 3rd world banana republic/military junta countries...

[FIGJAM]

So far I am not aware of any racist and discriminating law that clearly put people at a disadvantage just because of their origin. I would even go so far to take any bet that in the EU such laws donâ??t exist and are even against the law. I donâ??t debate that you as Asian get different treatment and even might be discriminated. This is very unfortunate but in Europe at least you have the law on your side and can bring your case to the court, if the offense has been serious enough. In Thailand however, it is the law that discriminates us foreigners, which is a huge difference.

Exactly.

 

If a Thai is insulted, abused, mistreated, attacked, raped, killed or whatever else here in Italy the person who committed the crime will not only get the normal punishment for the type of crime he committed, s/he will also get further punishment if it can be proved that his/her actions were motivated by racial reasons!

In other words, if you target someone from an ethnic minorities because of his/her very ethnicity you will get punished MORE than you would if you targeted an "ethnic" Italian (a "Caucasian")!

 

Racism, even just talks and no action, is a crime in itself.

 

AFAIK the same is true all over the West and NOT true practically everywhere else.

 

P.S. To truly show what's the attitude, in LOS, just think about how foreigners are being talked about in some of Thailand's leaders's speeches (if you understand Thai and follow Thai politics)... No Western leader would ever get away with a tenth of what Prime Ministers and other top Thai leaders regularly say.

[gobbledonk]

OK, I'm opening myself up for a Figjam blast here, but have any of you considered Malaysia for the millions you seem to want to invest ? I was only there for a week, but the impression given by every cab driver, bellboy and short-order cook was that they welcome overseas investment with open arms, and things like an automatic 90-day visa on arrival for many board members would seem to make it easier to do business than Thailand's more restrictive visas. For all the hooha in Oz over Mulsim extremism in M'sia, the majority of the people I met were friendly and approachable. Whether a tourists impressions gel with reality is another question - anyone have any experience with the Malaysian bureaucrazy ??

[Hardy641]

You donâ??t get FICJAM or my message, donâ??t you? Nobody ever claimed that Europeans, Italians or Malaysian are in general more friendly then Thai people. On contrary I see it the same way as you see it. It is more pleasant to live in Thailand, because of its people and their laidback approach on life despite the racist and discriminating laws in place. After all it is the people you deal with on daily base who make love or hate a place.

This is true until you will get involved in legal issues which tourists staying just a couple of weeks hardly become but people working here eventually will. Only then you will understand and probably hate Thailandâ??s corrupt legal system and discriminating laws. Just enjoy your stay here and pray you will never have the bad luck of firsthand experience.

To fight bureaucracy is annoying everywhere but in European countries you can at least count on a working legal system and balanced laws, in Thailand it is an absolute nightmare as you have neither of both.

[CTO]

Malaysia's ok - better than Thailand - cheaper - I'd live there in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity.

[drogon]

As I see figjam has a nationalistic heart...

 

As a sidenote.

I could list almost as many problems which might occur either in my home country or in Spai or France for the matter..

 

Thailand has a crappy administrative system, is corrupt, they are not foreigners friendly, people try to rip you off, etc...

Fine I never said the contrary, but if you hate this country so much then why do you live there.

 

I do not like Madrid, in fact I dislike many aspects of the city, I do not like the Spanish banking systems and rules, Spanish administration is a pain.

But, I live here, I work (most of the time) here because they offer me an excellent salary.

 

If I hated everything about the country then it would be time for me to leave.

 

You should maybe learn to differentiate casual experiences, private thoughts and abusive generalization.

 

[..]

You should maybe learn to differentiate casual experiences, private thoughts and abusive generalization.

But he never will. Hence why I do not respond to him save when I just can't help myself. Then the noise just gets so loud I simply close the door cuz life too short to waste on "teaching a pig to sing."

 

Cheers,

SD

[FIGJAM]

As I see figjam has a nationalistic heart...

As sharp as always! :thumbup:

 

I am, in fact, so nationalistic that in the next few years I will move to the US (where I lived for a couple of years)...

I am on record, here, as saying that the United States of America are the greatest nation on Earth, ever.

Other countries I like more than my own, each for different reasons, are Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I also like several Northern European countries and I think I would like living in Germany although within the EU I still think that overall Italy is the best place to live in.

 

As a sidenote.

I could list almost as many problems which might occur either in my home country or in Spai or France for the matter..

Of course. Even the US, the country I like best, have some things which I strongly dislike, let alone Italy...

The point is, I have lived most of my adult life abroad and once I first set foot outside of the West and saw first hand how things really work out there I realized just how great a place and a society the West is. All I could see before were its many faults with no external points of reference given the preposterous, totally groundless politically corrected crap we are fed by the media and the politicians back at home.

 

Thailand has a crappy administrative system, is corrupt, they are not foreigners friendly, people try to rip you off, etc...

Fine I never said the contrary, but if you hate this country so much then why do you live there.

The Romans said "repetita iuvant", I don't have too much faith in that but here we go: trade offs, Drogon, TRADE OFFS!

First of all, the fact that I strongly dislike certain Thai cultural traits does not mean that there aren't others which I like and appreciate!

You either don't read or don't understand my posts since I have ALREADY written that.

Secondly, as a sexpat the balance (of those trade offs) is overwhelmingly in favor of Thailand and that's why I VERY HAPPILY lived for over 4 years in LOS. As a "family man" the balance (of those trade offs) is overwhelmingly in favor of the West and that's why I have VERY HAPPILY been living for over 3 years in Italy and am going to move to the US.

 

It's really all very simple and very easy (which is probably why you, SuaDum & C. are not getting it ).

 

You should maybe learn to differentiate casual experiences, private thoughts and abusive generalization.

Yes, maybe.

 

Or maybe it's simply that you don't understand what I am saying