Economical situation in LOS???

[FIGJAM]

I acknowledge that hardy, CTO and yourself have a much better understanding of Thailand's economy than I am ever likely to have, but do any of you believe you would be better off trying to run a business in China ? Gangbuster economy, the envy of many, but hurdles aplenty.

Well, let's see... Thailand: not a gangbuster economy anymore, not the envy of many and still hurdles aplenty. Where do you think I would rather invest?

 

That said, investing and/or working in the 3rd world is something I have always strongly discouraged anyone from doing and, personally, I will never do it.

 

I dont apologise for the Thai 'mindset', but I do have some compassion for the folk at the bottom of the pile.

Contrary to you and the rest of the smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists brigade, I know Thai society very well and I know that the folks at the bottom are, in most ways, just the same as the folks at the top.

The 2 examples I always give are the Thai police and the treatment poor immigrants get in Thailand from "the folks at the bottom".

Most of the lowest level Police come from "the folks at the bottom". Look at the their practices. Look at what they do and become once they get an ounce of power. They aren't in any way different from the higher levels Police, politicians, businessmen and the rest of the bigger dogs.

And as for the poorer migrant workers, look at how they are viewed and treated not only from the people ruling the country but from the "the folks at the bottom" as well.

Ask your nice "folks at the bottom" what they think about the Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians...

 

They may not apply a whole lot of critical thought to the antics of folk like Thaksin, but is this really so different to the huge number of Americans who continue to support 'my country, right or wrong' ?

Yet this closed minded nationalist country which you are trying to liken to Thailand grants to immigrant foreigners more or less the same rights which Italy does and Thailand does not...

How can it be?

 

Questioning the status quo has a price in Thailand, whether its Thaksin (or the generals, or ..) muzzling the press or bodies in the streets : that might have some impact on Average Somchai.

In Thailand people get to vote, I have no sympathy for those protesting what most of the Thais, for whatever reasons, chose.

Frankly, I see little differences amongst the ones the Thais get to choose from (I have my preferences, of course, and I would have voted differently from what the majority did the last time) but that is just because that's what the Thai society and Thai culture produce.

 

Give true democracy to the Middle East countries and they will elect worse scum than the ones already in power. Why? Because that's what thier societies and culture are FFS!

 

I haven't spent enough time here to hate Thailand the way that you do - I hope and pray that I never do.

Your knowledge of the country, the society, the culture and the languages is far behind mine and probably your values and principles are very different from mine.

Whichever it is, I am sure that my stays in Thailand are much more pleasurable AND SAFE than most of those of you smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists...

 

PS in my limited experience of Thailand and its politics, I havent seen any evidence to suggest that they listen to anything from outside the borders of the Kingdom. 'Addressing the issues' assumes that there are 'issues' to be addressed, and that very Xenophobia you mention effectively nixes that.

You don't get it, do you?

 

RECIPROCATION.

 

Start doing that and see how quickly their tune would change...

 

The ONLY thing preventing us from doing so and quickly fixing most of the farangs' problems in LOS (and indirectly, many of Thais' problems as well!) are YOU smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists!

 

The first words out of Thaksins mouth whenever an ABC journo got him in a sticky spot in an interview a few years back were 'You dont understand Thailand', followed by a smirk that would have looked great on a villain in a Bond movie. The man's arrogance was mind-boggling.

And each and every post you smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists make proves the man right.

[Hardy641]

Great for you and your wife that your businesses are doing that well.

 

The 90 days reporting is nuisance but nothing more. If you are travelling quite frequently it isnâ??t that easy to keep track on the 90 days.

However you havenâ??t provided any answer regarding the real issue loans, ownership of land and VISA/work permit.

 

And yes I applied for the PR even twice in 2002 and 2003 but haven't got one. No transparency why I didn't though.

[CTO]

I was this year to apply - g/teed I'd get it - but I declined - they wanted me to apply in too short a time frame.

 

While I agree with some points from every poster above - one thing that annoys me is Farangs and Thais saying "Your not Thai so your opinion doesn't count" - followed by various depending on who is telling me.

 

However as the father of two Thai children (who are also Australian children) I do care about Thailand as it's part of their life. Anything in their life I care about.

 

 

[FIGJAM]

Thailand is a second world country.

You have just proved you don't know what you are talking about.

The old geo-political label of "2nd world country" applied to communist countries.

Today, these non-scientifical definitions have become socio-economical-political ones and to distinguish between developing countries (3rd world countries) at various and much different stages of development and countries which have developed past the 3rd world status have been introduced new "labels" like 4th world countries (Cambodia and Myanmar are, for example, 4th world countries) and NIC (Newly Industrialized Countries, Singapore, South Korea and Hong Kong are, for example, NICs) and so on.

 

If one hates so much Thailand for any reason, good or bad, then why do you stay there or keep going there?

Because my despising certain Thai cultural traits doesn't prevent me from having fun and enjoying the good ones?

 

I suggest you to read more carefully what I am saying and not what you think I am saying...

 

I lost 120K bht one day to a greedy dishonest landlord.

I just lost my heart to a Thai woman.

 

Still, I will travel to Thailand to get laid.

Can't see what you're trying to say. Haven't I written that I think Thailand is a great playground?

Heck, it's my Plan B and I would probably go back living there if I ever was to resume my old lifestyle...

 

but I feel that Thais are xenophobic enough so that we do not start to do the same as them nope?

I am not trying to foster xenophobia, I am trying to make Westerners understand that RECIPROCATING in our homecountries the shit the Thais pull on us in theirs is the only quick, efficent and effective way of solving most of our problems and, even, many of theirs.

 

Unfortunately, it takes intelligence, open mindness and a minimum of knowledge about Thailand and the Thais to get my point.

[khun_khon_neua]

I lied, one more time.

 

visa/wp and land ownership I have replied several time, this loan thing is new. . Now you want loans too?

 

How much more can we talk about visa and work permits if you ignore what I say? I know lots of people with PR, what happened to you is your problem, you have to take responsibility for your life at some point.

 

You choose to discard my response on land ownership and even brought up a single person owning land in a discussion of comparing spouses rights in a western country versus Thailand. If you donâ??t trust your wife enough to have property only in her name, that is your problem, not Thailandâ??s.

 

So, what we have here is a classic case of transference of some ones personal issues to a third party, in this case Thailand. If Thailand would just start acting like a good western country (or like the good communist countries Vietnam and China) all his problem would go away.

 

[Hardy641]

You choose to discard my response on land ownership and even brought up a single person owning land in a discussion of comparing spouses rights in a western country versus Thailand. If you donâ??t trust your wife enough to have property only in her name, that is your problem, not Thailandâ??s.

 

I am not married. So what can I do? I already told you that buying a house on a Thai girl's name is not an option. Only fools would do.

 

So, what we have here is a classic case of transference of some ones personal issues to a third party, in this case Thailand. If Thailand would just start acting like a good western country (or like the good communist countries Vietnam and China) all his problem would go away.

 

It is rather you who is generalizing based on your own personal situation (working in booming industry in its best years ever, being happily married and trust her 100%). But how many of us are so lucky? Again I am not begrudging your luck. You fully deserve it. But please donâ??t overlook serious shortcomings and discriminations foreigners have face in Thailand just you are in the lucky position that it does not affect you. And let me remind you that luck is very volatile.

[khun_khon_neua]

I have never said this in a discussion on this topic before, but I can think of no other response.

What are you doing here? It is perhaps way past your time to leave.

 

[Hardy641]

Arrh, he we go. Instead of bringing some content into the discussion you coming up with the general platitude:

"Shut up and accept everything like it is or piss off."

 

In this case any further efforts to discuss the obvious discriminations of foreigners by Thai law and FBA are lost.

 

Enjoy your life in the wonderful paradise Thailand.

 

[FIGJAM]

Letâ??s break your rant down into the individual pieces and address each one in an objective, factual, non-emotional way:

How come the factual description of reality (you haven't and won't be able to negate ANYTHING of what I said) is always a "rant" for you smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists..?

 

PR and citizenship- Your wife got PR in Italy from day one. But Thailand requires 3 years continuous extensions of a non-immigrant visa (which requires you to either have a job and/or income 5 times average Thai wage).

WRONG.

The old NON-IMM Os parents of Thai citizens were getting did not qualify for PR.

 

The old NON-IMM Os spouses of Thai citizens were getting (the 20k and later 50k in the bank) could did qualify for PR.

 

The new NON-IMM Os spouses of Thai citizens are getting 40k shared income do not qualify for PR (especially if the income is your spouse's).

 

The NON-IMM Os "retirement" visa do not qualify for PR.

 

The NON-IMM Os "education" visa do not qualify for PR.

 

Even the 5 year Visa the Thai "elite card" holders get do not qualify for PR.

 

Amongst the other requirements, you have to be 3 continous years on annual extensions of stay AND be working AND be paying taxes on a non officially specified minimum amount which empirical evidence shows to be not less than around 100k baht/month (legal teachers on 30-50k/month in Thailand from a lifetime are NOT getting PR).

 

First off, letâ??s be accurate and say the income requirement is 5 times the minimum wage. For the professional, middle class Thais, 40k a month is probably about the average.

Before speaking about accuracy, go to look up the Bank of Thailand's most recent official figures on the AVERAGE (NOT MINIMUM) Thai income.

In Q1 2007 (last time I had this discussion on Thai Visa and checked the accurate figures) it was 7700 Baht/month so, to be accurate, they were asking 5,2 times the average Thai income.

 

Thailand does not need Westerners working at minimum wage; they have every right to expect a westerner wishing to stay to have decent income.

WTF are you on? We were talking about SPOUSES AND PARENTS of Thai citizens, not a casual "Westerner wishing to stay"...

 

And besides, since Thailand grants fuck all welfare benefits to foreigners (and very few to its very citizens), minimum, average or 5 times the average, the Westerners are, to say the least, "very unlikely" to become a burden to the Thai government. They are a RESOURCE and a great source of valueable FOREX.

On the contrary, most of the Thais residing in the West are a net loss for our govts yet they and their dependants are allowed to stay...

 

PR, though a somewhat long and painful process, is highly achievable.

So highly achievable, in fact, that there is a maximum upper limit (AFAIK NEVER reached, BTW) of 100 PRs per year per nationality.

 

Most of the westerners I know with Thai wives that have lived her a long time have PR.

How many people are we talking about? On what grounds they got PR, exactly? Were they working in Thailand? How much were they making?

 

If you read on Thai Visa, it is also possible, though again long and painful, to get Thai citizenship.

Without even going into the details and further requirements to get CT, 1 of the prerequisites is having had PR for a number of years. PRs are limited to 100 per year per nationality (and they aren't even giving out that "many" anyway).

 

If you are a woman and you marry a Thai man this prerequisite is waived though because Thai men are much more important, for the Thai law, than Thai women. This and many other laws nicely show how they are very far from being considered of equal importance, dignity and value...

 

I was BAF on the cesspool which is Thaivisa.

Go looking up my very long, detailed and unchallenged posts (the ones not edited or deleted, that is) on Thai social, economical and political matters. Go look up my posts and threads on the visa situation. Read the "Spin Off From "story Of My Thai Citizenship Application" Thread".

No one could ever prove me wrong so I was simply silenced (banned).

[FIGJAM]

Oh, and the father of a Thai can get a non-imm extension with no income requirement (see TV).

Yes, see TV.

He can't get 1 year extensions on that ground alone even with 40k/month (let alone with no income!).

He doesn't qualify to get PR.

He doesn't qualify to get CT.

 

Owning Land- This seems to be the really big one, and I donâ??t understand it at all. My wife can own all the land and houses she wants, the fact that it is legally in her name and my name is not on the deeds does not bother me at all.

We are discussing people's rights not your personal situation and personal choices. We aren't discussing whether this should or does bother you.

For example, are you working in Thailand? Well, if tomorrow they prohibited all kinds of jobs to foreigners that would "not bother me at all" since I have no intention of ever working there...

Does the fact that it doesn't bother me personally make it any less of a shocking, unfair, unjust big issue??

 

We are married, committed to each other for life, it is OUR property, what is on a piece of paper in the land office is meaningless. I have no ego or insecurity problems with the situation, what is yours?

Within certain sectors of Thai society it's customary for the husband to hand his money to the wife for her to manage it, are you also doing it?

 

Live your own life as you please and let me do the same with mine without judging it.

Of course, we can discuss it when that, and not people's rights, is the topic and then you can tell me about my "ego or insecurity problems" and I can tell you about your "naiveness, stupidity and irresponsibility problems".

 

I am certainly not part of the â??smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists brigadeâ? as you describe.

You are a very fine example of them. You haven't been able to factually confute any of the points I made and you even failed to try to address the other issues I mentioned and you quoted:

. can't work most jobs

. nearly always have to pay more than the Thais

. am not equal to them in the courts and before the police

 

I know exactly what the issues are with Thailand and how many of them could be solved if only they would take a western approach to them [color:red](like that is ever going to happen)[/color].

NOT WITH YOUR ATTITUDE!

 

I am very pragmatic, logical person that tries very hard to look objectively at all sides of a situation in order to find a reasonable solution that works for me. So far, I have not found a problem with Thailand that I cannot work with.

So, care to detail your personal situation in LOS (I assume, of course, that you are living there to begin with) and how you have dealt with the issues I mentioned?

 

Being bitter and hostile gets you nowhere and you, apparently, are living proof of that.

It got me back in Italy for the moment and it would get me back to Thailand in case my plan B kicked in.

You understood nothing of my attitude.