Thoughts on Thai nightlife & a few questions

[Sean222]

For the record here's my philosophizing below on the Thai girl scene in general, perhaps for the newcomers, but make of it what you will.

 

I've entered Thailand about 17 times since I was 24, but mostly my 30s- I'm now 39 and will be there again next month. I've had fifty or so girls there but I don't much bother with short time these days and I do feel that that scene's deteriorated somewhat over the years.

 

By the way I'm up in Korea doing some daft if kind-of well paid teaching, but what a soulless boring place it is, good grief: the sense of non-being is overwhelming, so I want to make the most of things in Thailand.

 

There's a few things I'd like to do, which I've done before but have sometimes been a little hard to recapture- any advice or suggestions much appreciated:

 

An oil body body slide, ie not with soap (infinitely superior to soap), with a great girl. At one time Cupidy did this but for not for years, but Colonze 2 now seems to do something similar and I'm hoping I can get some sense out of them for this one.

 

A bj where the girl will take a good 30 mins over it: had this in Barons once- really something; I thought I'd try the Pattaya Lolitas on MK Metro.

 

Make a girl come in a good oil massage place- I'll try Angels off Sukhumvit: have done it at Barons and eleswhere (but it can easily catch you off guard when the girl's turned on and I'd like to make a good job of the situation).

 

Make LT girls come: I've succeeded with 6-7 girls on this, including ones who're hot every night, and in the day. But determining in advance which girls are in more touch with their bodies is something I've no idea know how to do- I thought maybe I'd just ask her in the bar if she can come, probably a dumb question though.

 

Go travelling with a girl, say from Pattaya, taking her to Grand Palace, or even to Angkor in Cambodia for a few days. There's a great girl in Supergirl I have in mind for this who I suggested it to in March. Have done it before, but not leaving the country- thought it might really cheer her up.

 

A good couple of hours at the Pattaya Angelwitch on Soi 15: this is one of the most fantastic places in the world- the shows capture Thai attitudes to sex and sensuality like nothing else. There's a few stunning showgirls as well- I think their barfines are are an irritation though before closing time, and how can you romance her then?

 

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Thai cultureâ??s approach to the emotional and sensual is very different to the Westâ??s, especially English speaking countries, with initial examples of culture shock including the views down Walking Street in Pattaya or Sukhumvit soi 4 in Bangkok and their rich flux of people and possibilities, complemented by the luxuriously hot and sultry climate. Thereâ??s a continuity with ordinary life that mystifies Thais as to what Westernersâ?? inhibitions can possibly be; unhappiness and repression exists in the bars and nightclubs of the West rather than beyond it, young people struggling badly to meet each other and even to make any friends at all in their alienated materialistic environment. Their society gives little idea about how emotional life works and the numbers of stressed, dejected faces in the Western nightclub is sickening, the whole situation for them twisted and abusive.

 

Western thought is articulated and compartmentalized whereas much older Indian-Asian thought is holistic and understated, with cultivation of the individual built into the social structure, encompassing rather than constraining it; many Asian and African cultures have an unbounded character with for instance words, activities and buildings blended into each other. Western socialization by contrast brings the naivety of foregrounded ideas, self-consciousness, insular immaturity and a lack of confidence that feeds on its own cloistered lies about the world- in England itâ??s really hard even to feel an adult at all. Instead of American and Western freedom and self-expression located more on the surface of society as concepts to insist on and be reminded about, above repressive less stated norms beneath, Thai freedom is inbuilt on deeper levels with strong village community and Dionysian interconnection, procuring personal development indirectly and naturally.

 

Apollonian Western presuppositional norms being more intellectually than intuitively derived define only themselves and are thus antagonistic towards all others, whereas Dionysian Asian norms being more abstract and less conceptual typically have the civilized qualities of compatibility and universality. Western norms are aligned with rationale and intellectual account, and the accompanying fear that they fail to provide true grounding- they encompass a narrow and hence repressive and ultimately completely false range of experience. By contrast toleration is fundamental to Buddhism and similarly Hindu temples may have not only their own deities but side alters to the Virgin Mary, Mohammed or others: despite their fundamental normative character both acknowledge other systems of thought as means to similar not rival insights and are central expressions of more holistic understanding. The absence of non-Christian images in a church or images in a mosque reflects the prominence of restrictive arbitrary dogma and principles and closed systems of thought. Cultural norms and religions are beyond rational reconciliation and fundamental to oneâ??s particular outlook but Dharmic Asian religions and their emphasis on what is not inherently embrace all possibilities in their non-confrontational and pacifist, intuitively interconnected natures.

 

Many Asian and black African cultures confound articulated thought and make concentration in the usual Western sense difficult but bring a mature non-specific focus and sophistication, allowing for plans to change with situations. In the Thai language for instance vowels keep cutting in, defying the articulating consonants- the very sound is open and light without seeking arbitrary closure and the castles in the sky of lost mental processes; likewise there are constant obstacles on pavements blocking route and vision, skytrain stations obscuring views down the road and eye level machinery at checkouts once again bouncing the attention back, hinting at interconnection in the mind rather than things transparently themselves. Typical of these cultures Thailand has an unreality about it, a fundamental disbelief in material life per se- the signs and lights of businesses for instance don't quite look like they mean it and everywhere is a slightly carefree attitude, reflecting Buddhist notions of impermanence rather than attachment to the ever-changing material world. Rational Apollonian is integrated into intuitive Dionysian, logic issuing from the inward sensuous riot rather than imposed from without; light but deep and rich colours are also used- elegance plus seething inward interest in the static.

 

Western Christianityâ??s gross denial of sexuality, integral to its offensive concept of suffering at the basis of life, contrasts with Asian images of Gods having sex with each other or mortals and complex phallic, vaginal and erotic imagery located in temples and routinely throughout society. In the Western medieval there was somewhat better understanding of the links between sex and the spiritual but modernityâ??s rationality and overwhelming shift to discursive thought has hindered the awareness of God and the unity integral to our relationship with the world. An example of the lack of disjunction between Thai religion and sexuality are Buddha altars with candles and incense burning found in and around massage parlours or go-go bars, which all wai to as they pass; everywhere retains a sense of quiet, the whole beneath the surface, providing a harmony free of confused principles or simplistic, fixed conceptualisation about life: everything is possible, because everything in life really is.

 

Sex is hidden beneath lifeâ??s surface as the absolute or transcendent is hidden within the relative or material, but this relationship has unity in one being dependent on the other: sex is for-itself Dionysian activity distinct from relative means to ends activity but actually underlies it as all action is subject-subject rather than subject-object in nature, and there is no abstractedly instrumental activity. Hence though sex cannot be foregrounded it should hardly be repressed or continuous with disgrace or disapproval, being the foundation of reality and human life, well-being and happiness. The horrific error of Christian and Islamic Apollonian cultures is the initial normative presupposition of sexâ??s wrongfulness when it is the essence of truth, light and the mature mind: they assume everything should be transparent on the surface when truth must reside under it because of its ultimately unstatable nature and transcendent reference. Only from this basis should articulated thought arise, not from capricious, self-generating Apollonian principles and normative systems imposed after sex and truth are lost.

 

Thai culture normalizes sexuality in its fullness and boundlessness, providing tremendous inner energy and vigour: the scope and range of possibility embraced also suggests itâ??s a country of the future, with huge potential and a durable base for massive development. The sheer power of the cultureâ??s openness, limitlessness and compass of thought as centred on the understanding of sexuality is phenomenal, with self-consciousness and opprobrium unknown in the parlours, barsâ?? high quality erotic shows, nude dancers, and availability of genuine relationships with fabulously beautiful girls. The bars and shows, especially those attracting the most beautiful girls, are enormously sophisticated, embracing the rich complexity of possibilities and requirements of personal relations; the men look to the girls and their power and choice, often tremendously confident and accomplished, super-cool, in touch with their sexuality yet imperturbably demure, and very observant with anyoneâ??s movements and expressions counting, real on-edge stuff. Likewise in the shows the greatest relish and satisfaction is taken in sexual expression and being watched and admired, really into it, writhing on beds, using all kinds of gear, and sometimes having a bash at Christianity for instance routines with feet washing or strapped on phalluses under nuns cloaks; the dispatch, candour and proficiency is unforgettable, and everything taking place behind a thick sultry intoxicating gauze, in the world but fabulously not of it, providing some of the most important and fantastic of all culture shock.

 

Once you know them girls talk with openness about sex, the giving of oneself in sex being much less a barrier or compromise as its unity with life is maintained at a high level; sexual matters arising in conversation that in the West would be deeply problematic are dealt with easily and ungratuitously- they have sex not cluelessly talk about it. Many girls also are excellent in bed with good skills and knowing what they like, while alive to the importance of long term relations- itâ??s a place to meet a few and then marry one. Thereâ??s much to gain and few places offer such opportunity and scope for self-development, the maturity, authority and freedom here underlining just how infantile and backward a place like England is. Thereâ??s little prostitution here, the relations between people not being broken down into categories but retaining their natural subtle blending. If the man and his life are well organized and he treats a girl well heâ??ll be treated likewise, this being the only reason the scene works so well: every girl looks for a man whoâ??s got ahead in the world with the money to look after her, and itâ??s important she always takes some especially if heâ??s from a more developed economy, though sheâ??s unlikely to count it, even look at it or not take it graciously. The affluent man is more attractive- wear a good shirt, trousers, shoes and expensive watch, and book into a comfortable mid-range hotel; a good physique will also add much to your credentials.

 

The bargirls can be watched deciding who to talk to and whoâ??re the more attractive propositions as protectors and providers: they wonâ??t meet the man or will make their excuses if thereâ??s anything about him they dislike or he makes mistakes. He needs to be with it and once a girl agrees to leave with him, expects him to be her boyfriend and treat her as the Goddess she is: always take her to a good restaurant and for instance other bars, shows, pool hall, bowling, massage or event. Unless it didnâ??t work well, he must of course see only her from that bar for as long as she dances there, all as with only one massage girl from a parlour, showing due commitment, justifying her and her standing in othersâ?? eyes and avoiding affecting her friendships with other girls. Thai girls are a real phenomenon- here has the highest proportions of beautiful and extremely beautiful women in the world, with their personalities endowed with an extraordinary and disarming lift and allure: Thai culture is feminized in its poise, grace and watchfulness, with rounded language sounds, holistic thought and girls put on pedestals like nowhere else, dressing in beautiful sexy clothes. Women are behind successful men, the world evolving because of the movement towards them and the divine they embody, and Thai cultureâ??s remarkable strength out of sensuality provides conditions for the huge Pattaya building projects driven by the girls: men will do anything for them.

 

The Thais readily converse- to go to any bar and talk and play games with someone, them responding in a human way to seeing you alone and being pleased to meet you, is such a contrast to the reserved and bitching, worried attitudes at an English bar, everyone too afraid to say a thing. The hostility, snootiness and whatever sick and ludicrous barriers there are between them shows the extent of the lost of their very humanity, regarding such socializing as too forward or at best a curious novelty- life a novelty. It canâ??t be underlined enough how gross and offensive the English social normative background is- people go to the same bar for 20 years, notice each other there over all that time, never exchange a single word and think thatâ??s normal; coming from such psychosis and perversion the impact of these places can be life-changing.

 

The liberated bar scene and presence of completely genuine girls to meet however is something many Westerners have difficulty handling, their response being sometimes to make a fool of themselves- against all manners they'll dance on the stage with the girls or be obscene, with confusion and helplessness on their face; also revealing are the men filling Pattaya nightclubs, getting drunk and totally wasting their time when there are beautiful girls to meet across the street in the bars- bargirls routinely see Westerners as crazy. Also happy hours at outdoor bars can be popular with Western expatriates: the rowdiness, badmouthing and fights that break out, aggravated by an underlying fear of and hence contempt for the culture theyâ??re in, particularly from the English, is shocking- the Thais with their courtesy and refinement are appalled and it only highlights the differing levels of civilization. Also instead of all speaking quietly as do the Thais, so each can hear their own conversations undisturbed, their unbelievable attitude is for each to shout above the rest: they simply bring their culture with them and want desperately to think itâ??s superior- the mindlessness of savages and hooligans in an atmosphere of antagonism and violence lying just below the surface. Theyâ??ll even stare in jealousy and hatred at you all as in an English bar, a pathetic strategy inviting a fight, because youâ??re talking to your girl and her friends at the next table- and this may be at Nana Plaza where there are many hundreds of girls to meet, yet at least in their present mind frames theyâ??re so spineless and ineffectual they havenâ??t got it in them to charm any one of them. Moreover whereas the view of the park on Sukhumvit Road may include dignified groups practicing tai chi while others fly kites, British parks see belligerent skate-boarding, strong larger, bad language, resentment and fear. And once up above soi 4 was a giant hoarding of a beautiful woman looking concerned with a man kissing the side of her face and smiling reassuringly, underneath reading â??The power of gentlenessâ??- romance doesn't occupy such a place in the West.

 

Also Thaisâ?? use of mobile phones on the skytrain or subway is sparing, often with a hand to cover the mouth or moving to a wall, showing respect for othersâ?? presence. Westerners using not just phones but all manner of ridiculous equipment attached to their heads discuss at volume their work, life and whatever rubbish, thinking how clever and important they are; the English language even spoken quietly sounds like the speakers are having to try hard, whereas Thai naturally sounds discreet and calm. There are guards positioned at all stations and even in underground walkways, everything being civilized, safe and upstanding without chance for creeps or drunks to invade- no confused ideas about delinquentsâ?? rights are entertained or shocking conduct excused as individuality. Hualampong station is a good example of the quiet simmering intelligence, contrasting with its scattering of Westerners with their childish skimpy clothes and aggressive stance, trying hard to be positive in a culture already providing the assurance and clarity theyâ??re looking for: thought needs founding on holistic Dionysian fundamentals and attempts to stamp a foregrounded rational order on reality are contrived and subject to revision. There are also orderly procedures on the trains, with more movement than necessary around discouraged, people vacating bunks themselves in time for clearing bedding, and designated guards responsible for each carriage. Moreover thereâ??s more fresh food and the 7-11 shops sell little chocolate and only in small sizes, not the huge arrays of juvenile indulgence: the Westâ??s high obesity rates reflect its profligacy and obscene consumption of the majority of the worldâ??s resources.

 

The world is losing much with postmodernity and the bevelling of all cultures, perhaps not in underlying ways but at least superficially: encroaching Western expectations, distractions and showiness have meant Thailand isnâ??t as potent and devastating an experience as in the mid â??90s- even the music and tone of the bars less cheerful, melody obliterated by driving rhythms as materialism obliterates genuine life concerns. Thereâ??s been a increase in low appeal shows and American dance tables in bars to bring in more people from the simplistic horde driven democratic West, in place of great maturity, inner complexity and quality atmosphere where you could better watch, think and approach a girl. Rationality has been abstracted from its proper use and corrupted as false aims have arisen, as similarly with parlours in the past being well organized for good Dionysian sex now more interested in appearances, for instance using soap instead of oil: sex is inwardly not outwardly focussed but Westernersâ?? skewed and repressive cultures resituate their attention in ways bad even for small minds. Thailand in the past had a society somewhat more inwardly focussed and refined, with a quieter environment with more foliage and less Westernization, and the Thais need only to properly invest in their incredible culture not alter it. It remains however one of the worldâ??s top few most powerful with pure and unmatched perspectives on sensuality, allowing people whoever they are and whatever their orientation a unique fullness of self-expression.[/color]

[drogon]

Why bother making a girl come if she is a one off?

 

You are paying her, she is not paying you.

This is pure foreign emotional crap that no Thais or Asians do...

 

This said, you are of course free to do it.

 

Of course, for regular girls, making them come is far more enjoyable.

 

Recapture the magic? Not for me, the magic for me is to find a great military history book I never read.

 

I go to bkk to get laid, bed some great looking girls without having to enter a relation.

 

Meet some old friends and new board members, have a few memorable parties as life is short.

 

Why do you prefer an oily to a soapy?

I am not much into massage but so far the best body to body I got were in MP.

 

There is no magic in all this.

You just pay a lovely lady, treat her well and bed her -> and you expect a good service.

 

This is about lust, sex, money and social experience or even metaphysical as when you are drunk, you could reflect that you are lucky to be the one fucking her rather than being reincarnated into a bargirl...

 

Life s a bitch, take every opportunity to get the most out of it.

 

[Faustian]

Why the somewhat wordy passage sean? Which is full of opinion and therefore not necessarily accurate....

[frede]

Why bother making a girl come if she is a one off?

 

You are paying her, she is not paying you.

This is pure foreign emotional crap that no Thais or Asians do...

 

A sense of achievement maybe? This chap obviously doesnt get much hole back in the world.

 

Aside though, who the fuck would want to act like a Thai? Its not really much of a benchmark

[Torneyboy]

A wordy first post :thumbup:

[gobbledonk]

Jesus, dude - when Figjam gets here, this is going to be one interesting thread indeed ...

 

Gobble, who is a 'Thai Apologist', but hasnt completely abandoned the logic of the West

[Sean222]

This is about lust, sex, money and social experience or even metaphysical as when you are drunk, you could reflect that you are lucky to be the one fucking her rather than being reincarnated into a bargirl...

 

Hi drogon, nice to meet you but your sentiments are completely wrong. Lust doesn't exist in abstraction and the more you actually like her and know her mind the better the sex is. If you just want a robot you can find a girl from your own back streets, or buy a doll: why come to Thailand?

 

And if you've not had a good oil slide you've only half lived.

 

Anyhow thanks for the replies guys.

 

[Oldtimer]

Sean, I really enjoyed reading what you had to say. I think that you are close to the truth.

 

Its relationship what matters, and the better the relationship, the better the sex. Thank you.

 

PS I must confess though that am not a great advocate of body slides in massage parlors. Particularly in sopies, I found that they are chilling and cold. Sometimes when I feel comfortable with my massage lady, I tend to spend most of the time listening to her life story. And you know, every time I learn something new.

[Old Hippie]

"...Lust doesn't exist in abstraction and the more you actually like her and know her mind the better the sex is...."

 

You are kidding right?

 

 

"...If you just want a robot you can find a girl from your own back streets, or buy a doll: why come to Thailand?..."

 

 

For exactly that purpose, finding a robot who does what I want, how I want, when I want. You honestly think the whores you go with all like you? And have a "connection" with you?

 

"...I've entered Thailand about 17 times since I was 24, but mostly my 30s- I'm now 39 and will be there again next month. I've had fifty or so girls there..."

 

50 girls in 15 years? 3.3 per year? wow, you stud!

I've had that many in a short time session, and I probably heard the same stories you did in that time...I've had 50+ in a month long trip, but numbers mean absolutely nothing when you get right down to it, after awhile, the bullshit and truth are all the same between them.

 

"...The liberated bar scene and presence of completely genuine girls to meet however is something many Westerners have difficulty handling, their response being sometimes to make a fool of themselves- against all manners they'll dance on the stage with the girls or be obscene, with confusion and helplessness on their face; also revealing are the men filling Pattaya nightclubs, getting drunk and totally wasting their time when there are beautiful girls to meet across the street in the bars..."

 

You are talking about guys in the bars, and "Completely genuine girls" in the same sentence...you do realize the girls in these bars are whores right?

 

"...bargirls routinely see Westerners as crazy...."

 

Yes, bar girls are emotionally stable and thus able to make this determination. Of course Thai men think we are crazy as well, because we fly 1/2 way around the world to pay "outrageous sums" to fuck their "ugly women." I consider the source.

 

"...The bargirls can be watched deciding who to talk to and whoâ??re the more attractive propositions as protectors and providers:..."

 

Ah no, it is called identifying the best/easiest mark, getting the most they can from the fool, doing the least they can.

 

"...they wonâ??t meet the man or will make their excuses if thereâ??s anything about him they dislike or he makes mistakes..."

 

Unless her sponsor didn't send the cash that month and she is broke, then all that bullshit goes out the window, and she is on any dick she can get to earn money to eat and pay the bills. Whores are still a buyer's market.

 

"...He needs to be with it and once a girl agrees to leave with him, expects him to be her boyfriend and treat her as the Goddess she is: ..."

 

She is a whore plain and simple, she expects nothing more than to be paid for her service.

 

"...godess she is..?"

 

What the fuck are you smoking?

 

"... I do feel that that scene's deteriorated somewhat over the years..."

 

Agreed. I blame clueless wanna be punters throwing money around.

 

[Old Hippie]

Why bother making a girl come if she is a one off?

 

You are paying her' date=' she is not paying you.

This is pure foreign emotional crap that no Thais or Asians do...[/quote']

 

A sense of achievement maybe? This chap obviously doesnt get much hole back in the world.

 

Aside though, who the fuck would want to act like a Thai? Its not really much of a benchmark

 

 

Hey, he has had 50+ girls in 15 years! That is 3.333 a year!!