Central Scrutinizer Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Very good article that explains a lot more than I have seen so far. Thanks for that link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 He wrote a lot of articles for the Phuket Gazette but they've mysteriously vanished. One of my operatives found this on web.archive.org http://web.archive.org/web/20040204151426/http://www.phuket-info.com/harry/031209-travel11.htm It's not hard to see why the Thais are really pissed off with him. They're going for maximum publicity. He may well do the whole 3 years if he doesn't get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 A few points. First, discussing these laws, how they are being enforced and how they are doing more harm than good does a tremendous deal of good. There are plenty of Thais that agree with that position. Further, the Thai elite are particulary sensitive to foreign criticism. This point has been made in the Bangkok Post several times. You don't think the authorities are not concerned about that foreigners think. Khun Mark Abbhisit is setting a new all time record in meeting with foreign chambers of commerce as fast as he can to explain and justify his government and explain his policies. In a country that relies primarily on exports and tourism and the elites - those that make decisions - were educated abroad, foreign opinion counts for alot. Second, I simply don't buy into this argument that I am somewhow not allowed or supposed to have an opinion about Thai policies and laws. I have lived here for over 14 years and paid more in taxes than many of the elites that run this place (even though they are far wealthier than me). And I cannot express an opinion about a wrongheaded policy or law? Come on... But more fundamentally, why shouldn't anyone be entitled to an opinion, and why shouldn't that opinion be evaluated on the merits, rather than dismissed with the cheap argument, "well, he is not Thai, so it doesn't matter what he says." That cheap argument is nonsense, and is demeaning to the Thai people. And yet some foreigners seem to buy into it. Amazing. Let's take the American experience - it's timely. Foreginers criticize US policies all the time, and I am glad they do. I often agree with their criticisms. They often have good points. And American benefits from their opinions. No different anywhere else, including Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think you are missing the point gadfly. It's not about opinion. It's about insult....real or perceived. Deliberately flaunting a host country's laws is very insulting. Did you read that article he wrote in the Phuket Gazette above bragging about his exploits? Does it sound like someone who has Thailand's best interests at heart? And I think you're wrong about seeing the arrest as a stupid tactical move. It was intentional. So was letting him be filmed by the international media in shackles. I doubt if it will have a big affect on exports or tourism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 It will have exactly the opposite effect the Thais want. His "book" will now be read by many and the criticisms on the Thai government are already spreading all over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I know. I've been reading a lot of stuff on the internet. Opinion seems fairly divided but I don't see a lot of sympathy for Harry especially as the facts come out. I'm sure Thais are discussing it too. I still think the Thai authorities took that into account when they arrested him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiter Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 That's the problem innit? Life is compromise. Do I literally give up my life for a principal? Now, my life, my biz, my everything, is in LoS. Yes, I could move it, but very painful and it would impact my biz, and therefore my care of my family (it may still happen if the reasons "break the camel's back"). If I were 20, it would be a non-issue and I'd be the champion here. Unfortunately, now, too many depend upon me; so I am more subtle. I do what I can, vocally, financially, and anonymously; and hope that lets me not sell out my principles while taking care of my responsibilities? Does that make me a coward? I think so, in some respects. And I struggle with that daily. But we all do what we have to do. At least I do not totally sell out and become a total conservative as most folks do when they age. Cheers, SD "Well, as I said. I may be an asshole, but I'm never a pussy enough to to NOT say what I mean under my handle." So there are limits even to your courage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiter Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree with most of what you say on this topic but let me add some remarks. I think there is fundamental confusion in this discussion regarding on one hand the obligation to obey a country's law and on the other hand the desirability to change an obsolete legislation. The first one is a non-political issue handled by the judicial and police authorities. The second one is a political process within the realm of elected representatives, i.e the parliament and public opinion. Of course, unless the law is totally inhuman such as some laws under dictatorial regimes, a country' s laws should be strictly obeyed (don't get me into to prostitution law or smoking ban issue). Otherwise we risk the chaos of a Hobbesian society. But on the other hand, as you say, the political issue of the need to changing bad, obsolete, non-functional laws detrimental to the progress of society should be openly discussed, no matter if you are a foreigner or a native. If Thai society strives - which it does - to open itself to foreign influence, investments, visitors etc it should also accept political arguments from non-Thais about its laws, values, institutions. Since the LM law is in place the Australian writer should have obeyed it (but I am not sure what exactly he did discuss in his book). The issue will then be how far it would be possible to discuss, not the subject which the law aims to protect, but the law itself. No doubt such a discussion would be politically risky but it's worth full support from open-minded and progressive observers and commentators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 "Well, as I said. I may be an asshole, but I'm never a pussy enough to to NOT say what I mean under my handle." So there are limits even to your courage? Sure, when it is illegal and can cost my family their home & business if someone gets a bug up their arse (I don't so much care about my freedom if I believe in a cause, but if someone depends upon me, then I have to care). Certainly NOT if it is an opinion about something that is legal to discuss. There appear to be several Smoke Nazis who refuse to post in that thread under their real handles. I don't get it. Are you afraid of your "comrade's" reaction to your opinion? Why? Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 If Thai society strives - which it does - to open itself to foreign influence, investments, visitors etc... Not so sure I agree with that. They want the money, sure. But they would ideally just get it without having to see or experience a farang. The government and a lot of Thai people are very clear on that. But outside of that, I certainly do not disagree with your comments. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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