dean Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Sorry if I came out looking like the middle class should be blamed for the poverty up north. And I certainly wouldn't hail Thaksin as their "champion." My point is that, while the middle class pays the majority of the taxes, they get quite a few of the benefits of Thai society. Its probably not fair to compare what a bargirl can make easily to going to school to get a job that pays a fraction of what a bargirl can make. I've never been to Issan but have spent several years in the Chaing Mai area and know many women (not BG's) who would jump at the chance to go to college or go into a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckrisg Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Follow the thread and yes I know a lot of middle class Thais you dont have a monopoly on that. I replied in response to the nonsense spouted by Hardy. There are two sides to this conflict and I have a view opposed to Hardy. Sorry but it is you who talk nonsense here and mixing things up. The middle class which pays by far the biggest chunk of taxes in LOS has as absolutely nothing to do with the old elites or do oppose a better education system for all. The elites actually strongly supported Thaksin in the first place but he alienated them due to his greed and desire to get all for himself and his cronies. I neither support the old elite nor Thaksin but the hard working middle class who will have to suffer the most from this conflict. The difference between the PAD and the Red shirts can be easily seen in last weekâ??s events. The PAD demonstrated peacefully for months!! They even stayed calm when some Thaksin supporters fired grenades into groups of demonstrator injuring and killing several. The red thugs resorted to violence just after a week. Hardy the wealth of thailand is generated by all not just the middle class tax payers, a fair society ensures that all enjoy some fruits of that labour and to keep harping on about the poor abused middle classess is simply nonsense. Sorry but I understand all too well. Chelsea Fan I agree with a lot of what you said I have witnessed the 30 baht medical scheme and the loans working well. I hope everything ends soon to the benefit of all and I dont support or want death or injury to anyone, I'm not a fan of the red shirts action but I understand the deep resentment that thais feel and yes a lot of them support Thaksin and understand whats happening without being on the streets. But as Lazyphil said why attack each other on a talking forum we all want (I hope) all Thais to get a fair deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardy641 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 The 30 THB health scheme is working well? Please get real and don't fall for Thaksin's propaganda. It is a con-scheme like so many Thaksin introduced. It bankrupted or almost bankrupted a lot of provincial hospitals, created unacceptable working conditions for many medical staff leading to a mass exodus of health professionals and Thailandâ??s (non private) health system wouldnâ??t exist anymore if the government wouldnâ??t have poured further billions into this scheme. Further a Thai can use the 30 THB scheme only in his/her home province. If not from in Bangkok she/he wonâ??t get any medical help under this scheme, if she is working/living in Bangkok. While previously patients received medication until they are cured but under the this con-scheme they get the cheapest medication for a short time and have to return again (and again), pay another 30 THB to get more medication. Losing time and worsening the working conditions for medical staff due to many unnecessary visits. I know several horror stories where people even died because of the lack of professional support under this scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseafan Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 See my comments about the PAD and DAAD in my previous post. You just canâ??t compare both movements. So Thaksin made things happen? Indeed he did! 3000+ extrajudicial killings in his first war of drugs; initiating the unrest in the deep south which has been peaceful before, 200+ killings at the Krue Se mosque in Pattani and 70+ at Tai Bak, the murder of Somchaiâ?¦ Shall I go on? Hitler, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein and other dictators also made things happen and Thaksin absolutely deserves the same fate as them. 3000 drugdealers killed...no bad thing IMHO, the unrest in the south has been going on for many years, way before his time, I dont remember any one action he took that ignited the tension, if anything wasn't it the Muslims who brought it all back to the boil? I don't know, maybe I am wrong. I'm not informed enough to comment on the other points. I am not saying Thaksin is a good guy, nor am I saying the reds are in the right. All I am saying is where was Abhisit when the PAD were bringing Bangkok to a halt and believe me there was certainly violence involved. Whats so different now other than they are pro-Thaksin/anti-government? I know there are many underlying reasons for these protests, its not black and white (or red and yellow), however its hypocrital for the Thai PM to use the Army to clear the streets when he was strangely abscent from doing the same thing last year, in fact he was very quiet on the whole debacle. All I hope is that this ends quickly and (relatively peacefully). The only saving grace I can see is that Thaksin has played his hand by publically calling for revolution. If this fails then moving forward I reckon it will put him in a much weakened position. Lastly, where is the King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseafan Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 The 30 THB health scheme is working well? Please get real and don't fall for Thaksin's propaganda. It is a con-scheme like so many Thaksin introduced. It bankrupted or almost bankrupted a lot of provincial hospitals, created unacceptable working conditions for many medical staff leading to a mass exodus of health professionals and Thailandâ??s (non private) health system wouldnâ??t exist anymore if the government wouldnâ??t have poured further billions into this scheme. Further a Thai can use the 30 THB scheme only in his/her home province. If not from in Bangkok she/he wonâ??t get any medical help under this scheme, if she is working/living in Bangkok. While previously patients received medication until they are cured but under the this con-scheme they get the cheapest medication for a short time and have to return again (and again), pay another 30 THB to get more medication. Losing time and worsening the working conditions for medical staff due to many unnecessary visits. I know several horror stories where people even died because of the lack of professional support under this scheme. Fair enough, but if what you say is right then this collapsed after Thaksin was pushed. I don't know the dynamics of the scheme though I do know that before the 30baht plan, if you were ill and couldnt afford to pay, tough. No public healthcare system in the world works, the same points you made could easily be used to describe the NHS. People dying through poor treatment, professionals leaving to go abroad etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseafan Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 The difference between the PAD and the Red shirts can be easily seen in last weekâ??s events. The PAD demonstrated peacefully for months!! They even stayed calm when some Thaksin supporters fired grenades into groups of demonstrator injuring and killing several. The red thugs resorted to violence just after a week. The difference is that the Army did sweet FA when the PAD caused disruption. Dont you think the same thing thats happening now would of happened had the army started to "clear the streets/airport"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardy641 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Even if they would have been all drug dealers Thaksin canâ??t just kill them in a democracy. But over 2,000 of the 3,000 are doubtful to have been involved in the drug trade. Just browse the web and search at some NGO sites (Amnesty International). Right the conflict in the south exists for decades but the situation escalated after the faked (by Thaksin cronies) arson on a military base and his harsch handling of the conflict. Whatever good Thaksin has done ( I doubt there is much) he is a MASS MURDER and belongs to Den Haag for crimes against humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Regardless (and Hardy641 I agree with you), Thaksin is fucked at this point. Do the red shirts have a secret plan? Do they have an army hiding somewhere? If not, Thaksin and his rent-a-mob psychopaths went too far and they've lost it. Game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 ... game is still in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coss Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 IMHO, Thaksin will lose more credibility, Redshirts will tough it out at Govt house for a month, with sporadic acs of insanity, like death. Global pressure on the economy will tell, and an equilibrium will settle gradually on all concerned. Cheers Not that I know much - Coss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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