Bangkoktraveler Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 youngfarang will next say we shouldn't be paying the Iraqi healthcare - or at least untill USA citizens get equal if not better healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I get the impression youngfarang has no health insurance and if something should happen to him, we all would have to chip in and buy him a paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Get a good taste of how "Universal Health Care" works. I've heard that "socialist" western-Europe countries that have a state-based universal health-care system spend 2 to 3 less money/inhabitant for health-care compared to what USA spends' date=' for a wide coverage of everyone. I've even heard American citizens who happened to live there stating how reluctant they were to come back to the US of A after enjoying that kind of system for many years.[/quote'] I've heard horror stories from England (including from a MP) and several Canadians who have come to the U.S. for treatment because they can't get it in Canada until it's probably too late. In fact, met one on a recent train trip that was on the way to the Mayo Clinic. (Weeks or months to get a friggin' MRI? OMG ! Can get one here the same day or within a few days.) HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimDidMeGood Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Canada is not an European country and England is barely one :nahnah: Was talking especially about France and Scandinavian countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Get a good taste of how "Universal Health Care" works. I've heard that "socialist" western-Europe countries that have a state-based universal health-care system spend 2 to 3 less money/inhabitant for health-care compared to what USA spends' date=' for a wide coverage of everyone. I've even heard American citizens who happened to live there stating how reluctant they were to come back to the US of A after enjoying that kind of system for many years.[/quote'] I've heard horror stories from England (including from a MP) and several Canadians who have come to the U.S. for treatment because they can't get it in Canada until it's probably too late. In fact, met one on a recent train trip that was on the way to the Mayo Clinic. (Weeks or months to get a friggin' MRI? OMG ! Can get one here the same day or within a few days.) HH I have heard these horror stories as well. I have also heard people sing praises about both systems, locals and imports alike.Both sides of this argument will use the stories that best suit their cause, whether they are true or not. People with big money will always go where they and maybe their doctors think they can get the best care, or at least the best care they can afford. Some go to Europe and pay, some come here. I know a guy from Singapore, who came here to have his shoulder repaired. Same guy went to Europe for prostate care. The guy has the money, and seeks out what he feels is best for him...may or may not be, but it is in no way indicative that 1 system sucks more than another. Now, assume UK and Canada both suck health care wise, assume they are the worst. So following this, according to you and others, we should not even attempt to have any sort of health care system because the one in UK and Canada sucks? That is ridicules! That is like saying the roads in Bangladesh suck, so we shouldn't attempt to have better roads here... America is supposed to stand for something, we have always boasted that we are Number 1. So why shouldn't we examine all the health care systems out there, refine the best of them, and make an even better system here in the USA? You guys are just throwing in the towel on this with out even trying! Are we a nation of doers? or a nation of quitters? Lets call a spade a spade here (get it? "spade?" ) If the right came up with the idea (I believe Nixon did?) and was now presenting it, you'd be all for it. Rush and the gang would be hailing it as a magnificent milestone etc...But Obie wants it, so it sucks no matter what. I don't see the right/republicans coming up with any alternative plan... The best alternative they seem to come up with is "fuck the guys who don't have it and can't afford it..." You have always had health insurance provided to you through the tax payers, including your tax money. It was a benefit for working and retiring. Now you don't want the same tax money to provide medical coverage to others. What would you have done, had you lost that job, and had no medical coverage for you or your wife and kids? Don't tell me you'd get another job with coverage right away, that may not be an option. Who'd pay your medical bills? what if your kids got sick and you had no coverage? you may well have lost everything you worked for, just to pay the bills, and that might not have been enough. I know a few people this has happened to and they have been ruined as a result. These weren't loafers on the dole, these were people who worked their asses off, but could not get or afford medical coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Simple' date=' he'll lose everything he has earned in his life paying the bill, at a much higher price than an insured person would be charged. Assuming he couldn't cover it, he'd either be paying it off forever, or else it would get dismissed in a bankruptcy, and the result would be those with insurance would have to pay more to make up his share. This happens everyday in this country. What I don't get is all these government employees who are fed off the taxpayer tit, and or retired and living off it, not wanting the other taxpayers to have what they have. I have worked almost non stop from the time I was 18, paid my taxes etc...if I lose my job, I lose my insurance, never mind the Cobra plan etc, I can't afford it with no job. Why some people don't want me to have medical insurance/coverage in this event is baffling. Equally as baffling is why these same people don't want to have any medical coverage should they be in the same position. All I hear from these people is "I don't want my tax money going to pay for illegals and those who don't work..." forgetting this already happens, and they are already paying...Every other developed nation has some form of health care for it's citizens, yet "the greatest nation on earth" does not... [/quote'] Don't worry OH, if you lose your job you can apply for medicaid. Get a good taste of how "Universal Health Care" works. Then I can hear you BITCH even more about healthcare. AH, but, if I had NO insurance, than even crappy coverage would be better no? Depending on what old person you talk to, medicare/medicaide/mediCal is either good/efficient, or it sucks...trouble i see is the buracracy with it...same as with any medical insurer that doesn't want to pay. But for people with nothing, it is better. Have you ever been in that situation? no job? no money? no medical coverage? NO family to help you? I have, it sucks. Second side note' date=' people seem hell bent on making Obama fail at any cost, how unpatriotic is that?[/quote'] Sorry OH, can't have it both ways. You can't talk shit about Bush and then tell me how unpatriotic it is to challenge the fuck-up we have in office right now. If we were to judge the patriotism of people by the way they talk about their president, you, BT, SD, and Chappie would be the most unpatriotic people I know. Yes, but when we talked shit on Bush, You, the other guy, and a whole lot of talk show hosts said it was un-patriotic to do so, yet, now, you and the same bunch are doing the same thing, so it seems you do want it both ways when it suits you...so, welcome to the club for unpatriotic Americans...at least I served in the military... Unlike BKKTraveler, I say avoid the Marines, bunch of brain dead latent homos, who need a pat on the back for every little thing they do. I say Naval Aviator for you! Good education (paid for by the taxpayers!) good career prospects, and looks good when you run for office! And as I recall, the republicans need a few more guys who served to catch up to the dems...! Seriously, look into Naval ROTC! Catch up to the dems? The speaker of the house and the president havent even served in the military. Why is BangkokTraveler not ranting and raving about this? WHY?!?!?! Get your picket signs BT, we need to stand outside the Whitehouse and ask the prez why he never put on a uniform of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA over and over and over again. How unpatriotic!!! The rants about you joining the Marines is a spill over from other issues/threads. Marines are for brain dead losers. I say Navy for you, or maybe Coast Guard. Frankly, if I had it to do over again, knowing what I know now, I'd have spent 20+ years in the Coast Guard, gotten the pension, and been fat dumb and happy, instead of just fat and dumb. But I digress, never mind about the military, that is for you to decide. What would you do if you had no family to rely on, no money to buy health coverage, and got sick or needed treatment for some accident? Say a serious accident...we await your answer. And please stop with the insults, you are smarter than that, and you lose the argument when you stoop to that level. You know, our level... Let me tell you what happened to a guy I knew who had an accident, ended up paralyzed from the neck down. guy had no medical coverage had lost his job and could not afford it. Basically, they needed to sell the house, pay what they could, and when they were broke and at the poverty level, having liquidated all stocks etc, they then qualified for what crappy state programs existed. He later died of complications, wife and kids had nothing and had to start over. This was a guy who worked and paid his taxes, not some guy with his hand out all the time, or some illegal. Does that seem right to you? To me, in this country, it is wrong to let good people lose everything because they got sick or injured. Not talking about nose jobs and pimples here, I am talking about good life saving, keep them up and working health care. My medical coverage under a cobra plan would be about $350 a month, just for me. For a family, it shoots up to over $800. Comparable coverage without the cobra group discount would be over $600 a month for me, and over $1400 a month for a family. Not including co payments and deductibles. Sound like something you can afford with no job? Jobs with medical are dwindling, as employers can't afford to provide it, and workers can't afford to pay for it, so what is a good sound counter/alternative besides "fuck them?" 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youngfarang Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Get a good taste of how "Universal Health Care" works. I've heard that "socialist" western-Europe countries that have a state-based universal health-care system spend 2 to 3 less money/inhabitant for health-care compared to what USA spends' date=' for a wide coverage of everyone. I've even heard American citizens who happened to live there stating how reluctant they were to come back to the US of A after enjoying that kind of system for many years.[/quote'] I've heard horror stories from England (including from a MP) and several Canadians who have come to the U.S. for treatment because they can't get it in Canada until it's probably too late. In fact, met one on a recent train trip that was on the way to the Mayo Clinic. (Weeks or months to get a friggin' MRI? OMG ! Can get one here the same day or within a few days.) HH I have heard these horror stories as well. I have also heard people sing praises about both systems, locals and imports alike.Both sides of this argument will use the stories that best suit their cause, whether they are true or not. People with big money will always go where they and maybe their doctors think they can get the best care, or at least the best care they can afford. Some go to Europe and pay, some come here. I know a guy from Singapore, who came here to have his shoulder repaired. Same guy went to Europe for prostate care. The guy has the money, and seeks out what he feels is best for him...may or may not be, but it is in no way indicative that 1 system sucks more than another. Now, assume UK and Canada both suck health care wise, assume they are the worst. So following this, according to you and others, we should not even attempt to have any sort of health care system because the one in UK and Canada sucks? That is ridicules! That is like saying the roads in Bangladesh suck, so we shouldn't attempt to have better roads here... America is supposed to stand for something, we have always boasted that we are Number 1. So why shouldn't we examine all the health care systems out there, refine the best of them, and make an even better system here in the USA? You guys are just throwing in the towel on this with out even trying! Are we a nation of doers? or a nation of quitters? Lets call a spade a spade here (get it? "spade?" ) If the right came up with the idea (I believe Nixon did?) and was now presenting it, you'd be all for it. Rush and the gang would be hailing it as a magnificent milestone etc...But Obie wants it, so it sucks no matter what. I don't see the right/republicans coming up with any alternative plan... The best alternative they seem to come up with is "fuck the guys who don't have it and can't afford it..." You have always had health insurance provided to you through the tax payers, including your tax money. It was a benefit for working and retiring. Now you don't want the same tax money to provide medical coverage to others. What would you have done, had you lost that job, and had no medical coverage for you or your wife and kids? Don't tell me you'd get another job with coverage right away, that may not be an option. Who'd pay your medical bills? what if your kids got sick and you had no coverage? you may well have lost everything you worked for, just to pay the bills, and that might not have been enough. I know a few people this has happened to and they have been ruined as a result. These weren't loafers on the dole, these were people who worked their asses off, but could not get or afford medical coverage. Comparing roads with health care now are we OH? Truth of the matter is, Obama is power-hungry. He has taken over Wall Street, the Banks, the auto industry, and now Health Care. On a scale of 1 to 10 how do you grade Obama's handling of these "takeovers". I'm sorry but enough is enough!! Everything Obama has touched has turned to shit. A reform of the health care is needed but not a complete takeover like Obama has proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngfarang Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I thought not ... You tend not to think at all most of the time. Lame response YF. Again' date=' if you are so concerned about deficits, than why weren't you bitching about Bush's war, and the deficits incurred then? Also, if the US's healthcare system is so swell, then why is it that 50mm Americans do not have access to it? Sure, we have great doctors, and great technology ... just a lousy, inefficient delivery system. Don't hurt yourself while you try to come up with your next witty, but evasive reply.[/quote'] 50 million americans don't have healthcare. Lets take that number apart. That 50 million number you love to use also includes all the illegal aliens that are here. There are youghly 20 million illegal aliens in our country. So now we have 30 million Americans that don't have insurance. There are also people who can afford health care but decide not to get it because they don't think it is neccesary. Also included in that 50 million people "lie", you also have to consider the people who qualify for medicaid but have not registerd for it yet. The total for the long-term uninsured is as low as 8.2 million according to some studies. Chappeie you have been lied to!!!!! Start picketing with BT. Be patriotic!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngfarang Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 OH has called you braindead. Are you not going to refute these vicious claims or are they in fact true??? I will take a no response as a "yes I am braindead". I wouldn't want to hurt your little brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Watch the Micheal Moore movie, Sicko. It is factual? If so, the health care in Canada, UK and Cuba is faaaaaaaaar better then what we have in the USA. In any event, I do not see a realistic health care plan for the USA with the AMA, insurance and drug companies beating the drums against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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