British General Election Thread

[Nervous God]

I see it's a hung parliament, but is it a well hung parliament?

[SpiceMan]

Flash,

 

Even after 223 years, the US system has much to be admired. The only thing that's archaic is the Electoral College system. Other aspects of the system works very well. No one branch of Government has been able to grab all power for itself. The most common complaint Americans have is that their system results in pork barrelling, which is nothing more than representatives trying too hard to please their constituents. How I would love to have a system in the UK in which politicians tried to fight so hard for their electors. In the UK nearly all power is normally in the hands of the PM, who can rule with an iron hand. Only rarely do we have any kind of limits imposed on Prime Ministerial power, like now when a would be PM needs to rely on others in the House of Commons. You complain that after 1 year representatives have to start working on re-election but that just means they are always trying to please the electors. How wonderful that sounds to this Brit!

 

In the US you have an easily understood constitution that gives only limited power to the federal government and other power to the States but reserves all remaining power for the people. By contrast, in the UK much of the powers of former despotic Kings now reside with the Prime Minister, some other powers reside with the House of Commons and no power is specifically reserved for the people. Our political system is upside down! Some time ago you asked why Americans refer to their separation from the UK as "the American revolution" while we Brits refer to it as the "American war of independence". I will tell you the reason: the British monarchy and government don't want to admit that Americans really did achieve a successful inversion of our our fucked up system.

 

 

[LizardKing]

Question. What if none of the parties form a coaltion, what happens? Or will two of the parties eventually form a coalition? If not, will there be a new election and if so, won't a similar result happen?

 

Nice graphic from Auntie. Applies to the LoS as well.

 

[Flashermac]

Spice, the American Revolution (or whatever) was actually a civil war - especially after 1776. It began as a struggle against parliament, but after the Declaration of Independence and the alliance with France (the tradition and feared enemy), quite a few colonials had second thoughts. At one time there were more Americans serving in the British forces than in George Washington's Continental Army.

 

On the positive side, if the Loyalists had won, who know what sort of Canada there would be today. Nobody much wanted to settle there (except Froggies) until the United Empire Loyalists needed somewhere to go.

 

 

 

[SpiceMan]

Yes, the American revolution was a civil war; a continuation of the English civil wars of the 17th century. Patriots like Thomas Payne wanted the war to spread back to England and were surprised when it didn't happen. Bear in mind the English were very unhappy with the monarchy and parliament and if it wasn't for record harvests in the years preceding the war, we might have had a revolution in England too. That was our big chance and we blew it.

 

 

[Steve]

Too lazy to verify, but it was George III a the time right? 'German George' was what he was nicknamed by some if I recall. You're right that he wasn't popular.

As much as I love America, I love the truth more. The colonials weren't taxed into revolution. The crown spent a pretty penny protecting the colonists from the very French (7 years war/French and Indian war) we were aligned with in the 'revolution'. The crown was in a lot of debt and it was only fair to ask the colonists to help repay some of it via taxes.

It all turned out fine. As for a lot of loyalists, I've heard it was about a 1/3 for the revolution, 1/3 loyal and the remaining 1/3 or so split or waiting to see what way the wind blows.

One of the icons of America, Ben Franklin, had a son, William, who was a governor of New Jersey and was a loyalist. He was the son that some said was depicted in the paintings of him discovering electricity with a small boy. They were estranged because of the war.

 

Any way back to British politics. SpiceMan, I agree in part but there are two sides to that coin. Oftentimes there are things that are best for America generally but may not be best for your district or state. Those times America loses out. The greater good isn't achieved. Also, with the advent of corporate and special interest now financing elections, the people may vote for their man but he is more loyal to those that paid for us election and will pay for his re-election.

 

Also, if a good President had as much power as the PM, he could actually do more good. Cut the waste in government, etc.

 

There are good and bad to both systems.

 

I can't remember the last time a British election captured the world's attention. I know the Tories and Labour are akin to our Republicans and Democrats. Not exactly but if a comparison has to be made, I think it comes close.

 

What about the Liberal Democrats? Is their ideology a hybrid of the two?

[shygye]

I saw one Brit analyst compare the UK election results to Thailand! The circle is complete.

[The_Munchmaster]

Which means that the guy's a complete dickhead.

[SpiceMan]

Too lazy to verify, but it was George III a the time right? 'German George' was what he was nicknamed by some if I recall. You're right that he wasn't popular.

 

Yes. George III was one of many monarchs to be deeply unpopular in England. He was probably suffering from a form of insanity caused by porphyria.

 

I agree inpart but there are two sides to that coin. Oftentimes there are things that are best for America generally but may not be best for your district or state. Those times America loses out. The greater good isn't achieved.

 

But surely the job of congressmen is to represent electors for their district or state? Doesn't the job of looking after all states fall to the president and vice president?

 

Also, with the advent of corporate and special interest now financing elections, the people may vote for their man but he is more loyal to those that paid for us election and will pay for his re-election.

 

In the UK there is no TV or radio advertising for candidates so elections are much cheaper. Parties are allowed to make broadcasts but they don't have to pay for it. Advertising is limited to bill boards but there are still bad practices e.g. some years ago a tobacco company loaned the use of 2,500 bill boards to the Conservative party. In return the Conservative government delayed the ban on tobacco advertising for two years. (An EU wide ban came in later).

 

Also, if a good President had as much power as the PM, he could actually do more good. Cut the waste in government, etc.

 

LOL, its not often I hear an American arguing for more power to government. The downside of that is it would make the President less accountable to the people which in my view is a bad thing. I just don't like the idea of having less democracy, even in the US which has so much more than the UK.

 

I can't remember the last time a British election captured the world's attention. I know the Tories and Labour are akin to our Republicans and Democrats. Not exactly but if a comparison has to be made, I think it comes close.

 

Its a good comparison. Labour used to be an old style socialist party. The party reinvented itself in the 90's as "New Labour". They changed all their policies to be more like the US Democrats and it worked, getting Tony Blairs government into office in 1997.

 

What about the Liberal Democrats? Is their ideology a hybrid of the two?

 

It used to be. When Labour stole the center ground the Lib Dems moved leftwards. In many ways they are now more left wing than Labour and are advocating at least one policy that once belonged to the "loonie left" - unilateral nuclear disarmament.

[chuckwoww]

I saw one Brit analyst compare the UK election results to Thailand! The circle is complete.

 

It's similar in some ways. The elites fight it out for power and the peasants do the heavy lifting.