Usa Thread

[Old Hippie]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:19 PM, bust said:

You'd have an entire community vote for you 😉

Getting back to the Second Amendment, Jim Jefferies  nailed in his routine on guns being that an amendment is a change to the law generally made by another law which means it can be changed. But they will never do it as far as I can see. We changed the laws here with very little objection however guns to Amerikans are like the Quran to Muslims.

Technically, yes…but no. The first 10 amendments are what is referred to as “the bill of rights” these are basically the most important part of the constitution and are NEVER supposed to be messed with. FDR tried to ban all semi automatic weapons and handguns, basically all weapons except hunting rifles and shotguns and was basically slapped in the face with a dick and told NFW, not going to happen. He was successful in getting full automatics regulated as well as explosives as they were not at that time standard issue for the military. Those calling to strike the second amendment are playing with fire as this Supreme Court is very pro gun/conservative and if they applied that logic/ law precedent today, you might well see automatic rifles and explosives for sale once again…sad but true. 

      The “technology argument” is al very weak, true at the time all anyone had were single shot weapons. But if you apply the technology of those days to today in terms of firearms, then the president is set to use it on the first amendment as no one back in the 1700’s ever envisioned the mass media, tv, radio internet etc… so it works in too many ways that might back fire…it is a shit storm no politician really wants to tough…

[bust]

John Oliver's piece on it pretty well summed it up.

 

[Old Hippie]

 Some logical questions…How many mass shootings in Australia prior to the ban? Gun murders may have gone done, but did other violent crime/deaths go up?  John Oliver’s   Question about drug laws seems to almost stump this guy. But the answer is clear, people who violate drug laws get punished (I might argue wrongly), and despite all the laws against drugs in the USA, drugs remain the driving forced behind most crime. “Mass shootings…” What are they really? The term has been changed so many times in the last 30-40 years it has almost lost its meaning. Prior the the first assault weapons ban in the USA, we had mass shootings, almost all were tied to gang/criminal activity. Over time that changed, why? What else changed in the USA? Did mass shootings go down when “assault “ were banned in the USA? They didn’t, the definition changed and then changed again when the ban “sunsetted.” During the “ban” you could still get all the weapons that were banned, with maybe 1-2 exceptions. Even now in California, you can still get banned weapons, why? Well, change the cosmetics, the name, take off the bayonet lug and an AK-47 becomes an AKM and there you go…so lots of laws, lots of loop holes… When I see gun guys as such in this interview, I have to laugh, they certainly don’t do “sensible gun owners” any real favors…against a 1 hour waiting period? Against a universal background check? WTF? The gun guy’s comment “…why? We don’t have a check or waiting period for the first amendment…” is not quite true, Try to buy certain reading materiel and the clerk at the shop may ask for ID…isn’t that a “check?” Isn’t having to wait until you are 21 to buy certain reading material aka porn, a “waiting period?”

     The gun issue is insane here, too much noise on both sides. When I hear “no gun laws” I want to cringe and run to the left an support sane laws. But then, I hear “ban ALL guns” and I cringe even worse and want to run back…the time for noise is over and the time for sanity is here/long passed time for sanity one this issue…I predict in 10 years we will be no different, despite what any politician says on the issue. Maybe 20-30 years when these kids grow up and want real change *MAYBE* we might see something, but the system now is fucked here. I love my guns, but don’t mind waiting to buy them and didn’t mind the background check.

[Coss]

3 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

How many mass shootings in Australia prior to the ban?

13 in previous 18 years

[Old Hippie]

2 hours ago, Coss said:

13 in previous 18 years

What does that tell you? Does Australia medicate kids the school dreams “hyperactive?” (Many if not most/all of the “domesticated” mass shooters of school age had been given various medications as kids.) Is there a massive gang and drug problem? What is the overall crime rate/violent crime rate then and now?  Does the average Australian dimwit fear the government and thinks he and his buddies can resist “government tyranny” by taking up arms? Are there white separtist movements in Australia? 

     The stats in the USA keep changing mainly because the criteria keeps changing. Example, the Justice department stopped counting “gang related” shootings in the Mass shooting count during the “assault weapons ban” (there never was a true ban, as the gun manufacturers found work around, cosmetic changes, removal of bayonet lugs etc…). They also lowered the number of needed victims from 4 to 2. Hence the number of mass shootings has gone up as the criteria changed. It would be a lot higher if we counted gang related mass shootings, it would be lower if we still needed 4 victims instead of 2.  So really all smoke and mirrors here.  You cannot compare a country like Australia to the USA, apples and oranges. 

     The single biggest reason we can’t get stuff done here is the constitution, a guaranteed right to own a gun. The phrase “…shall not be infringed…” in theory means just that.l so the next argument is “define infringement.”  The next issue is “what is a militia and a well regulated one at that..?” That one has actually been upheld by the courts years back, it was even a major question during WW2 when civilians on the coast were given a limited number of weapons for volunteer watch programs. Other groups formed up their own “coastal watch” and armed themselves with little or no interference…of course it was a different time then.

     I support waiting periods especially for first time buyers. I also support mandatory training which would include basic usage of a firearm, safe handling and review of the laws, when to shoot and when not to. I also support deep background checks which would include history of mental illness, or any other physical/mental impairment and I would have it include juvenile offenses (A few of these mass shooters had a history of violent offenses as juveniles that disappeared from their records when they turned 18.) All kinds of stuff could be done without “infringing” on any one’s rights. 

[Coss]

tells me,  that since the Aus government kept various classes of guns away from Munters and Malcontents, not so many mass shootings.

[bust]

3 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

What does that tell you? Does Australia medicate kids the school dreams “hyperactive?” (Many if not most/all of the “domesticated” mass shooters of school age had been given various medications as kids.) Is there a massive gang and drug problem? What is the overall crime rate/violent crime rate then and now?  Does the average Australian dimwit fear the government and thinks he and his buddies can resist “government tyranny” by taking up arms? Are there white separtist movements in Australia?

Does Australia medicate kids the school dreams “hyperactive?”

Approximately 1 in 20 kids get diagnosed with some type of hyperactivity disorder however only about 40% will resort to medication.

Is there a massive gang and drug problem?

I wouldn't call it massive however it does exist and is generally ethnic associated. As for drugs the violence is generally over the control of distribution at a high level not street level.

What is the overall crime rate/violent crime rate then and now?

The average firearm homicide rate went down by about 42 percent in the first 7 years. There was a continued decline however the rate has increased again slightly over the last 5 years. Worth mentioning though there has not been a mass shooting since 1996. The last one I remember a man shot dead his wife, daughter, and four grandchildren, before committing suicide however this was considered a domestic violent crime.

Does the average Australian dimwit fear the government and thinks he and his buddies can resist “government tyranny” by taking up arms?

No. We don't elect Reality TV Grifters as leaders either.

Are there white separatist movements in Australia?

National Socialist Network fits that description however very small in numbers and are generally shut down pretty swiftly once they poke their collective heads up.

[Coss]

Gentlefolk, I'd like to suggest that the post above could have been made about Middle Earth, a.k.a. New Zealand. excepting the average firearm crime rate going down.

There are some nutters here also and there was a wave of them trying to get elected or promote religions or alternative forms of government on back of the Orange one's election in 2016. It was really, "look! he did it! looks easy! I can do it too!" .

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Back to guns. NZ had an estimated 1.2-1.7 million guns owned by 234,335 licensed shooters. So not few per population.

Following the Christchurch mosque attacks in 2019 and the subsequent ban on most semi-automatic weapons:

Gun crime hit a new peak in 2020, despite the government's clampdown on firearms.

In 2020, 2399 people were charged with 4542 firearm-related offences, nearly double that of a decade earlier.

1862 firearms were seized in 2020, more than double the 860 seized a decade earlier.

Factors Influencing Crime Rates - 

More enforcement by police, potentially leading to higher reported numbers.

The arrival of 501 deportees from Australia, bringing more organized crime into New Zealand, yes, really.

Growth in gang activity and recruitment, see 501 comment.

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So sorry for the rant, I just thought I'd show what Middle Earth is like following Bust's good post above.

[Coss]

Trump said that it will be easy to round up foreign criminals in America because the local police know of them and know ‘their serial numbers.’

so all foreign criminals look like this?

 

 

 

[Coss]

... putting the Trump name on anything that might yield a stream of revenue...

A Washington Post report added earlier this month, “No presidential candidate has ever so closely linked his election with personal for-profit enterprises, selling a staggering array of merchandise.” What’s more, the Trump company website “also sells a variety of political merchandise at higher prices than his campaign charges for the same items.”