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[Flashermac]

Dan Rather To Hawkish Pundits: Send Your Kids To War Or 'Don't Even Talk To Me

 

 

Dan Rather doesn't want to hear you, the hawkish pundit who's been all over cable news lately, tell us that the United States should "do something" in Iraq or Syria or Ukraine — not unless you're willing to enlist your own kid first.

 

CNN's Brian Stelter asked the former CBS News anchor on Sunday if he's heard a "drum beat to war" in recent weeks. The question caused Rather to shed his "journalist hat for a moment," before issuing a challenge to the pro-war voices who have only grown more ubiquitous on television lately.

 

"Well, absolutely. Look, the war drums have been beating along the Potomac for some little while, accentuated in recent weeks and now in recent days. As a citizen — let me take my journalist hat off for a moment — but, as a citizen, this worries me a great deal. Because as a journalist who has seen war zones, I'm not padding my part here, but I've seen war up close not like the combatants do, but the savagery, the brutality of war once we put the nation at war ... All of these people on television — some of whom I have enormous respect for — but it unsettles me to hear them say, listen, we, the United States, we have to, quote, "do something" in Ukraine, we have to do something in Syria, we have to do something in the waters around China, we have to do something about what's happening in Yemen, we have to do something in Iraq, we have to do something about ISIS, what they are talking about are combat operations.

 

"My first question to anyone who is on television saying, "We have to get tough, we need to put boots on the ground and we need to go to war in one of these places" is, I will hear you out if you tell me you are prepared to send your son, your daughter, your grandson, your granddaughter to that war of which you are beating the drums. If you aren't, I have no patience with you, and don't even talk to me."

 

 

Bill Kristol, who's spent much of the last several months renewing his calls for another war in Iraq (or anywhere, really), was dealt a similar challenge just last month.

 

During an appearance on ABC, The Nation's Katrina Vanden Heuvel called on Kristol, one of the biggest boosters of the 2003 Iraq invasion, to take up the cause himself.

 

"I have to say, sitting next to Bill Kristol, man — I mean, the architects of catastrophe that have cost this country trillions of dollars, thousands of lives. There should be accountability," she said. “Because this country should not go back to war. We don’t need armchair warriors, and if you feel so strongly, you should, with all due respect, enlist in the Iraqi Army.â€

 

Kristol dismissed the argument as a "very cute line."

 

 

http://talkingpoints...our-kids-to-war

[jitagawn]

My grandmother on my fathers side died in 1977 at the age of 104.

We are all from San Francisco originally and she did have some story to tell...

Edison the Big Quake and on and on

Bless her soul

[unit731]

My grandmother on my fathers side died in 1977 at the age of 104.

We are all from San Francisco originally and she did have some story to tell...

Edison the Big Quake and on and on

Bless her soul

 

You know . . . I wished I rented a movie camera decades ago - to record the stories my grandfather used to tell. He's gone now. Long time ago.

Born in Quebec Province on a farm. Of Scots-Irish or Scotch- Irish ancestry. 8th grade education.

One of his first jobs was working at one of the newly built power plants. Gas - at the time - was the primary source of lights in homes at the time.

He became a salesman later - selling "electricity" to homes. It was a tough sell at that time - he used to tell.

Later he became an electrician and ultimately opened his own business selling and repairing electrical appliances.

 

I wish, though, that I had filmed/recorded some of the many stories he used to tell. Most are forgotten now.

[Steve]

The generation that lived during the depression and the one who were born of parents who lived in it are very frugal. My parents are that way. The jobs that FDR pushed through for massive projects for things like the Hoover Dam weren't for 'certain' people, if you get my meaning hehe . My oldest uncle said they relied on hunting for food and once they caught and ate rats but didn't tell the kids. He was the oldest and was also responsible to help take care of the others.

 

I have west indian relatives and they said that during the depression and the war in Jamaica that they had nothing. Engalnd took all the resources for themselves and later the war effort. The sugar planations, etc. were scrupously guarded and they were left to forage for food at times. He said, 'if you think it was bad in America, the colonies had it much worse'.

 

It was tough for everyone. Germany's mindset of having an almost neurotic fear of inflationary economic fears is said to be from the 1920s post WW1 Germany where the mark was pretty much worthless from hyper inflation.

 

My mom was always very thrifty, even when later we were doing fairly well compared to early days, working class as opposed to poor. She would go to yard sales in rich areas to buy things. We had boxes and boxes of canned foods in the cellar. My parents never truly trusted banks (so many failed in my grandparents day). My mom should be hired on the President's economic council. I have no idea how she made ends meet with all of us. Im talking at least 8 boys or more at anytime (cousins stayed with us off and on). We qualified for free lunch, welfare, etc, very easily but I always had lunch money and although we didn't eat great at times, I didn't go hungry. She had an 8th grade education but was the smartest woman I've ever met. Both of them. I learned common sense was far, far more valuable than a college degree. Still do. She, being religious would chalk it up to prayer but I suspect it was more...lol. She bought winter stuff in the summer, paying a fraction at used stores and the same in the winter. Sale was her 2nd favorite 4 letter word (free being the first .) My dad left all the household finances up to her. Old school dad, baptist deacon, his word was supreme law, he was THE man of the house but really, mom was in charge. haha...

 

That generation, no matter your hue, in America, England, Australia, etc, is rare. The younger folks are coddled these days. Certainly. I am not sure if they could mentally live through a depression. I really don't. I don't think I could frankly.

[Steve]

Interesting thing about war. 4 of my older brothers went in the military, two saw combat. Another was in a war but was stationed and worked where he didn't see actual combat. All of them have a few things in common. 1. al of them are off the grid. An email and phone number only. No social media. I speak to them by having to cal them and all of the siblings have an email thread that we speak with daily and weekly. My oldest brother who was doing recon in Vietnam is completely off the grid 2. They are liberal with a capital L, far left. 3. They have no trust for the government. I have several cousins in the military, one of the oldest is about to retire from the army after 25 years and he, from rumor has it, is part of some sort of electronic espionage unit. He stayed with us for about 5 years growing up, all i knew was he would say we could not communicate with him for a certain lenght of time as he could not respond. My brothers understood why to some extent.

 

I got accepted the Naval Academy in HS but didn't go. My brother, 2nd oldest who was in the Navy said he would never salute, haha but he said 'don't worry, if any war breaks out, they protect you Annapolis boys'.

 

My mom, never showed it but worried and now said, 'America has had a war every decade since I could remember. I thought about it and its true.

[Steve]

My grandmother on my fathers side died in 1977 at the age of 104.

We are all from San Francisco originally and she did have some story to tell...

Edison the Big Quake and on and on

Bless her soul

 

Wow, same with you and Unit. I loved hearing stories from my uncles and such when I was growing up. I have a German friend who is a very close friend and he confided in some stories his grandfather a WW2 vet would tell him. He said, most of them didn't want to fight but felt it was their duty. The biggest fear was the Russian front. His grandfather was in Italy and although said to this day he loves wine more than beer. Italy was the place German soldiers wanted to go the most. haha.. also he said, there were always kind of spllit between those who were 'true nazis' as he said and just the regular blokes who were drafted and just doing their duty. You didn't trust the hard core Nazi types. They'd rat you out, etc.for any infraction. Also stories of a few getting shot towards the end of the war. Weird hearing those stories. He said the sad thing is they felt they fought honorably, did their duty like anyone else but couldn't show it publcly because of the way things were socially after.

[Flashermac]

I have an NSDAP (Nazi) Party membership pin at home. My dad said he found it in a gasmask after a Wehrmacht patrol marched into his camp during the Battle of the Bulge to surrender, with their LT at gunpoint a the head of the procession with his hands raised. The LT was a Nazi and wanted to fight to the death. His men were ordinary soldiers, mostly draftees, and weren't about to die for crazy Hitler. They had jumped the LT and punched his lights out. Then they proceeded to surrender to the Americans. My dad said he figured the LT dropped the party badge into the gasmask, not wanting to be found with it.

 

My parents both grew up during the Great Depression. Their fathers both worked through it, but even so times were hard. I was raised to waste nothing. Even today it bothers me to throw away good food, something I see younger folks doing all the time. I was taught to clean my plate - you take it, you eat it. I had a Brit neighbour who would throw away perfectly good toys and childrens' clothes. It always made me cringe to see it.

 

Are we starting to sound like Monte Python's Four Yorkshiremen?

 

As to an 8th grade education, that was common back then. None of my grandparents had more than that. The reason was that schools in the countryside only went to the 6th or 8th grade. If you wanted to go beyond that, you had to go into the nearest sizable town or village, and that meant either a long ride on horseback every day or staying with someone in town. For most folks, that was beyond their means.

 

Some interesting figures: "79% Of the men who served Vietnam had a high school education or better when they entered the military service. (63% Of Korean War Vets and only 45% of WW II Vets had completed high school upon separation)."

 

http://www.veteransh..._statistics.htm

[jitagawn]

Well it gets handed down. I use to remember my Dad talking about picking prunes in Santa Clara in the late 20's.

He ended up getting his Doctorate at Columbia from hard work

 

In a couple of years here the SWIHTF

 

So as it happens I am "careful" as well...

[cavanami]

For all you "non-believers"...

 

10 Conspiracy Theories That Came True

 

When questioning the official narrative proved crucial

 

http://www.infowars.com/10-conspiracy-theories-that-came-true/

 

1) Operation AJAX and false flag terror

 

The notion that governments and intelligence agencies carry out acts of false flag terrorism has long been derided by the establishment media as a conspiracy theory, despite there being a plethora of historically documented instances.

After decades of denial, in August 2013 the CIA finally

admitted its role in staging the coup in Iran which led to the overthrow of Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953 under the umbrella of Operation AJAX.

Under AJAX, the CIA oversaw covert operations which included acts of false flag terror which

claimed the lives of some 300 people.

 

2) Gulf of Tonkin

On August 4, 1964, President Lyndon Johnson went on national television and told the nation that North Vietnam had attacked U.S. ships.

“Repeated acts of violence against the armed forces of the United States must be met not only with alert defense, but with a positive reply. That reply is being given as I speak tonight,†Johnson declared.

Congress soon passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which provided Johnson with pre-approved authority to conduct military operations against North Vietnam. By 1969, over 500,000 troops were fighting in Southeast Asia.

Johnson and his Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, had bamboozled Congress and the American people. In fact, North Vietnam had not attacked the USS Maddox, as the Pentagon claimed, and the “unequivocal proof†of an “unprovoked†second attack against the U.S. warship was a ruse.

3) Operation Gladio: State Sponsored Terror Blamed on the Left

Following the Second World War, the CIA and Britain’s MI6 collaborated through NATO on

Operation Gladio, an effort to create a “stay behind army†to fight communism in the event of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe.

Gladio quickly transcended its original mission and became a covert terror network consisting of right wing militias, organized crime elements, agent provocateurs and secret military units. The so-called stay behind armies were active in

France, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Norway, Germany, and Switzerland.

 

etc, etc, etc

[Flashermac]