chuckwoww Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 More about the museum looting... "Would-be looters broke into Cairo's famed Egyptian Museum, ripping the heads off two mummies and damaging about 10 small artifacts before being caught and detained by army soldiers, Egypt's antiquities chief said Saturday. Zahi Hawass said the vandals did not manage to steal any of the museum's antiquities, and that the prized collection was now safe and under military guard." http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_EGYPT_PROTEST_ANTIQUITIES?SECTION=HOME&SITE=AP&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Definitely looting going on. No police around. Citizens and army stepping in. Al Jazeera's liveblog is the best place for up to date information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Don't let neocon propaganda whip you up Steve. The Muslim Brotherhood is quite savvy. They know most of the protestors are young educated types. Personally I don't see an Iran situation developing in Egypt. I think the next leader is more likely to be a military man. The army seems popular. Perhaps Mubarrak made Omar Suleiman VP as an interim solution? http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/egypt-protesters-and-soldiers-the-army-and-the-people-are-one-1.339985 Hey CW, I certainly hope you're right. Trust me, it pains me seem so negative. I promise you I'm not that way in person, people that know me that, but I am a pragmatist and realist. Mubarark may be corrupt but as far as I know he did keep a check on the extremists. Perhaps in ways that would make us queesy in a 'I don't want to see how bacon is made' way. They do have a very, very strong extremist, fundamentalist, terrorist strain there. Egyptians belonging to these groups and invidually were and are very involved in terrorist attacks and al Qaida related acts. Wasn't one of bin Ladens top leutenants an Eqyptian a while back? Not a coincidence I'm afraid. My guess is a lot of muslim countries will go extremist before they beocme moderate again. Extremists will take countrol, eventually the people will see the light and want western style civil liberties and years or decades from now we'll see a Turkey style government across the region but it will go through a few metamorphases that won't be pretty and will be dangerous to the west...very dangerous. As for Egypt specifically they don't have oil (natural gas though) like other moslem nations, lots of textile exporting and such so their economy is more fragile than oil rich nations. My understanding its one of those places like Russia where you have guys with engineering degrees driving a cab because they can't find work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I dunno Steve. Saddam kept a check on extremists too. I see words like extremist and fundamentalist thrown around a lot. Not sure what it means anymore. If pro-Western governments collapse does that automatically mean strict Sharia law across the muslim world? I do think the more the West meddles the more likely it becomes. My problem is I can remember a time when Westerners were welcome in the region...this one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 During the days of King Farouk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I am not so sure Iraq had that kind of extremist element. From what I recall the Shi'ites just wanted autonomy or at least not to be treated like 2nd class citizens and the Kurds were definitely 2nd class or more 3rd class citizens. Our involvement brought upon a terrorist element. Even now, you don't see the call for a taliban like society, just autonomy. As for all the islamic countries it depends. Egypt, Yemen and Pakistan may go that route, perhas the Saudis, but I doubt Kuwait, Oman, UAE, and a few others would. An independent Kurdish nation or Sunni nation within Iraq wouldn't. The Shi'ites there may but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 So you agree the extremist threat is overblown. You're right about the Iraqi Shi-ites. I worked in the Basra region for a couple of years and never met any extremists just friendly hospitable people. (Mind you the Imam Hussein Festival in Karbala could get weird) But from Saddam's point of view the Shia were traitors, especially after Gulf War 1. Same with the Kurds. My point was that Iraq was held together by force and so was Egypt. Mubarak jailed and tortured thousands with only a few feeble complaints from the US. Stability was all that mattered. I think it's the double standards that have so many people pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Chuckwoww, unfortunatley I don't agree the extremist element in Egypt is overblown. The Muslim Brotherhood is very popular there. You saw the stats in the 2005 elections. They got 88 of 150 seats they contested. That's not insignificant. Its almost a 60% success rate. Extrapolate that nationally and they are a major force if not THE major force. Each country is different and has its own unique characteristics. Iraq is different than Iran or Yemen or Pakistan. You know that. If anything I'm surprised the media isn't talking more about it. In the news reports I'm seeing its depicted as only a fight for freedom and civil liberties, which essentially it is, but the aftermatth could very well turn into a state that is run by an extremist group or groups. Mubarak created this extremism by being so autocratic. Same way the Shah did in Iran decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 The age old question is, how can you give democracy to people who have no idea what it is, what to do with it, and don't really want it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Not so sure. The world lives in a world that is western dominated to varying degrees. They are all aware of the concept. Many immigrants that come and have come to America came from countries that had no democracy and they came looking for it because they understood the concept. I think western style democracy is fairly well known the world over and wanted. Even in moslem countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Came in late, and I'm sure it has been mentioned, but the possibility that this will spread to other Arab countries is 'interesting', to put it mildly. Pro-democracy types aren't the only ones interested in regime change in places like Saudi Arabia. i hope the moderate voices in Egypt arent drowned out by the nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.