Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[TheCorinthian]

 

This all proven technology.

 

 

No one said the parts are not unproven. It is your stated application that is ridiculous.

 

 

Ok, here is one of the issues.

 

By the above you are using "solar energy was used during sunlight to compress air and during non sun light time the compress air could be used to run machines, produce electricity...."

 

Stupid idea

 

Think about it... you are taking sun light, changing it into electrons, to drive a pump, to compress gas, to run a motor, to make electrons. Your net loss in energy in step 3,4,&5, is going to be so great as to be foolhardy.

 

What an engineer would do is.... capture the electrons in batteries or capacitors in the first step and eliminate the rest. (Which is in fact what almost all photoelectric cells do!)

 

Only a moron adds complexity to a system, and there are whole degrees in university on avoiding this. Change electrons to gas pressure so you can make electrons??? Its like getting from 'a' to 'b' by walking the other way around the world.

 

(And that is mentioned in the article above but in technical terms.)

[shygye]

Pumped Storage Hydroelectricity

 

At times of low electrical demand excess generation capacity is used to pump water into the higher reservoir. When there is higher demand water is released back into the lower reservoir through a turbine generating electricity. Reversible turbine/generator assemblies act as pump and turbine (usually a Francis turbine design). Some facilities use abandoned mines as the lower reservoir but many use the height difference between two natural bodies of water or artificial reservoirs. Pure pumped-storage plants just shift the water between reservoirs but combined pump-storage plants also generate their own electricity like conventional hydroelectric plants through natural stream-flow. Plants that do not use pumped-storage are referred to as conventional hydroelectric plants; conventional hydroelectric plants that have significant storage capacity may be able to play a similar role in the electrical grid as pumped storage by deferring output until needed.

 

Taking into account evaporation losses from the exposed water surface and conversion losses approximately 70% to 85% of the electrical energy used to pump the water into the elevated reservoir can be regained. The technique is currently the most cost-effective means of storing large amounts of electrical energy on an operating basis but capital costs and the presence of appropriate geography are critical decision factors.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

 

This all proven technology.

 

 

No one said the parts are not unproven. It is your stated application that is ridiculous.

 

 

Ok' date=' here is one of the issues.

 

By the above you are using "solar energy was used during sunlight to compress air and during non sun light time the compress air could be used to run machines, produce electricity...."

 

Stupid idea

 

Think about it... you are taking sun light, changing it into electrons, to drive a pump, to compress gas, to run a motor, to make electrons. Your net loss in energy in step 3,4,&5, is going to be so great as to be foolhardy.

 

[b']What an engineer would do is.... capture the electrons in batteries or capacitors in the first step and eliminate the rest. (Which is in fact what almost all photoelectric cells do!)[/b]

 

[color:red]Only a moron adds complexity to a system[/color], and [color:red]there are whole degrees in university on avoiding this.[/color] Change electrons to gas pressure so you can make electrons??? Its like getting from 'a' to 'b' by walking the other way around the world.

 

(And that is mentioned in the article above but in technical terms.)

 

 

Batteries are expensive and don't have a long life span.

 

I guess the Anna Power Generation (Solar) was the work of an idiot? Link

 

 

The Univerisity of Arizona is researching this very same concept. Link

[TheCorinthian]

Hands up all of you that routinely drive an extra 20 miles to get to work? (Adding complexity to a system.)

 

Yes people have researched it. Nothing new there... at all. All theoretical and very expensive and currently unworkable. Maybe in 50 years... Batteries do just fine for now and get better and better and have life spans counted in years and in some cases in decades. Look at current hybrid cars, for example, or the Mars rovers.

 

And your red'ing of my text is exactly the point. (since you cant argue the whole quote, love how you pick and choose) [color:red]Obviously, you are not an engineer or you would see the truth to it. I'll send you my old text book on thermodynamics if it will help. [/color] Or do you actually routinely drive an extra 20 miles to get to work?

 

Shygye's quote is the best defense and I have seen that work before but only works on a macro level and in low draw systems. It is a prime example of the old concept of the water tower. I.e., if given a big enough reservoir over a low enough draw, you can keep the water in the tower sufficiently filled with a minimal of inflow. During times of low draw, the small inflow can compensate for times of high draw.

[Bangkoktraveler]

I am surprised you are not aware that the technology exist today to convert solar to electricity and the electricity can be used to compress air. The air can be used to run a lot of devices that exist today. If you have the time. investigate the pneumatic air tool arena.

 

The first place I worked at full time once built a car at the turn of the 1900's that ran on air.

 

Even today there is much interest in cars that run on compressed air. They produce zero emissions. Their only drawback is how to produce the compressed air with out polluting. SUsing solar energy seems to fit the bill.

[shygye]

There is another problem using compressed air. The expansion of the gas is endothermic, Joule–Thomson throttling, that generates cold temperatures. This can cause icing on the valves and lowers engine efficiency.

[Bangkoktraveler]

There is another problem using compressed air. The expansion of the gas is endothermic, Joule–Thomson throttling, that generates cold temperatures. This can cause icing on the valves and lowers engine efficiency.

 

I can see it could be a problem but I never noticed this problem with pneumatic air equipment. At what pressures does it become a problem?

[shygye]

With pneumatic air equipment, you have two conditions that reduce the effects.

 

1) Low pressure, ~100 psi.

2) The compressed air isn't given time to cool down to ambient temperature.

 

You definitely see it at the standard 3000 psi of gas cylinders.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

It looks like Germany is thinking of getting out of the nuclear power industry. Link

[Bangkoktraveler]

With pneumatic air equipment, you have two conditions that reduce the effects.

 

1) Low pressure, ~100 psi.

2) The compressed air isn't given time to cool down to ambient temperature.

 

You definitely see it at the standard 3000 psi of gas cylinders.

 

 

It has been a long time since I worked with pneumatic air equipment.

 

I noticed Wikipedia has a page on pneumatic air motors. Some interesting history. Link