TheCorinthian Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I didn't make nothing up. (Learn English.) When you dodge a source request by saying "common knowledge" you are 100% suspect to making things up. Try defending a research paper and have that phrase in it and see what you get. I honestly can't think how you did not know you would get called out for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Corinthian the PC expert...... I was just acting like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have read that one of the main reason the massacre was not spoken about was because it came right as the United States was working towards a reservation policy. That I believe is fairly well documented. Was an interesting story on the treatment of the indigenous people around the world on the history channel once. It made some interesting comparisons of the treatment of Aborigines and Native Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCorinthian Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Corinthian the PC expert...... I was just acting like you do. PC?? Ha! 55555555 And you are still wrong! Damn bro, you even go to school? "PC" is like not using a black man as the criminal in your movie. What I am doing is holding you to a standard of grammar and correct debate I would think you would appreciate especially since this is a 100% written medium. But if you want to keep expressing yourself and looking like an uneducated moron, knock your self out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 << Camp Grant Massacre Reconciliation Coalition The following is from Rick Leis, President, Coalition of Prayer Network International. On October 5, 1996, approximately 80 people traveled from Tucson to the San Carlos Apache Reservation. Their purpose was to apologize to the San Carlos people for the Camp Grant Massacre. It took four years to set up the meeting. We met at the San Carlos Historical Museum. About 130 were present, including Chairman Stanley, Dale Miles (Tribal Historian), and David Miles from the San Carlos tribe. There were many tribal elders from the San Carlos, White River Apache, Navaho, Hopi and Desert Cahuilla (chawilla) tribes. People representing the groups, and families that were responsible for the massacre stood before the gathering, took responsibility for the slaughter and begged forgiveness. At the conclusion of the confessions and request for forgiveness, I addressed the gathering with the following Proclamation: Representative Reconciliation Proclamation To the San Carlos Apache People October 5, 1996 On April 30, 1871, a group of vigilantes out of Tucson treacherously attacked the peaceful, sleeping, Apache Camp. It is reported that of the 144 killed, most were defenseless women and children. Only eight were adult males. Eastern newspapers named this tragedy the "Camp Grant Massacre." The nation was outraged, but only for a short time. One year later in Tucson, an unsympathetic court acquitted the perpetrators. The citizens of Arizona stood quiet. The lost and their families still suffer the injustice. As citizens of Tucson, Arizona, on this day of October 5, 1996, we humbly take "Representative Responsibility" for these unthinkable acts, and beg your forgiveness for them as if they were our own. We honor the San Carlos Apache people and vow to stand with you as brothers and sisters in times of adversity and peace. We declare this to be the first day of the year of Jubilee and profess our intent to establish growing relationships with you. We pledge to learn to stand by your side as servants, helpers and friends. We are determined to help raise a memorial as a remembrance to remind us to stand together as brothers and sisters regardless of what the future may hold. We sign as representatives of Tucson and Arizona: Rick Leis - President, Coalition of Prayer Network International Pastor Gabriel Ward - Desert Cahuilla Morris Chapman - Song writer, and psalmist Pastor Gil Garcia Pastor Kenneth Ballenger Pastor James Keen Pastor Warren Anderson Jr. Steven L. Dowdle Brad Rollins Hal J. Jensen At the conclusion of the reading of the proclamation and presentation to Chairman Stanley and the Museum, Chairman Stanley responded, "As the elected Chairman of the San Carlos Apache Tribe, I grant Tucson forgiveness for the Camp Grant Massacre." He then said, "I also beg your forgiveness for the many ways in which we violated you." David Miles stood before us and said in the midst of tears, "Now, I can look a white man in the eyes. . ." Dale Miles made a few similar comments and received the proclamation on behalf of the museum. We concluded the ceremony by providing a traditional Apache meal. We have raised $600 for a bronze marker to be presented to the Tribal Chairman on April 30, 1998. It will be a copy of the proclamation. Currently we are negotiating with an artist to produce the marker. Following that ceremony, many of us then proceeded to the actual site. >> Link BTW only six of the killers were Gringos. Most were Papago Indians or Chicanos. ----------- Now back to the feud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 -> they have indeed considerably lowered the enlistment standards....+ in all "wars" some soldiers loose a few screws or feel free to do whatever they like just because they have guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Now back to the feud! Spoken like a true historian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 << Camp Grant Massacre Reconciliation Coalition The following is from Rick Leis, President, Coalition of Prayer Network International. On October 5, 1996, approximately 80 people traveled from Tucson to the San Carlos Apache Reservation. Their purpose was to apologize to the San Carlos people for the Camp Grant Massacre. It took four years to set up the meeting. We met at the San Carlos Historical Museum. About 130 were present, including Chairman Stanley, Dale Miles (Tribal Historian), and David Miles from the San Carlos tribe. There were many tribal elders from the San Carlos, White River Apache, Navaho, Hopi and Desert Cahuilla (chawilla) tribes. People representing the groups, and families that were responsible for the massacre stood before the gathering, took responsibility for the slaughter and begged forgiveness. At the conclusion of the confessions and request for forgiveness, I addressed the gathering with the following Proclamation: Representative Reconciliation Proclamation To the San Carlos Apache People October 5, 1996 On April 30, 1871, a group of vigilantes out of Tucson treacherously attacked the peaceful, sleeping, Apache Camp. It is reported that of the 144 killed, most were defenseless women and children. Only eight were adult males. Eastern newspapers named this tragedy the "Camp Grant Massacre." The nation was outraged, but only for a short time. One year later in Tucson, an unsympathetic court acquitted the perpetrators. The citizens of Arizona stood quiet. The lost and their families still suffer the injustice. As citizens of Tucson, Arizona, on this day of October 5, 1996, we humbly take "Representative Responsibility" for these unthinkable acts, and beg your forgiveness for them as if they were our own. We honor the San Carlos Apache people and vow to stand with you as brothers and sisters in times of adversity and peace. We declare this to be the first day of the year of Jubilee and profess our intent to establish growing relationships with you. We pledge to learn to stand by your side as servants, helpers and friends. We are determined to help raise a memorial as a remembrance to remind us to stand together as brothers and sisters regardless of what the future may hold. We sign as representatives of Tucson and Arizona: Rick Leis - President, Coalition of Prayer Network International Pastor Gabriel Ward - Desert Cahuilla Morris Chapman - Song writer, and psalmist Pastor Gil Garcia Pastor Kenneth Ballenger Pastor James Keen Pastor Warren Anderson Jr. Steven L. Dowdle Brad Rollins Hal J. Jensen At the conclusion of the reading of the proclamation and presentation to Chairman Stanley and the Museum, Chairman Stanley responded, "As the elected Chairman of the San Carlos Apache Tribe, I grant Tucson forgiveness for the Camp Grant Massacre." He then said, "I also beg your forgiveness for the many ways in which we violated you." David Miles stood before us and said in the midst of tears, "Now, I can look a white man in the eyes. . ." Dale Miles made a few similar comments and received the proclamation on behalf of the museum. We concluded the ceremony by providing a traditional Apache meal. We have raised $600 for a bronze marker to be presented to the Tribal Chairman on April 30, 1998. It will be a copy of the proclamation. Currently we are negotiating with an artist to produce the marker. Following that ceremony, many of us then proceeded to the actual site. >> Link BTW only six of the killers were Gringos. Most were Papago Indians or Chicanos. ----------- Now back to the feud! What led up to the massacre is what I consider important. Most of the goods consumed in Tucson came from Mexico. Being the USA imposed a high tariff, most of the goods were smuggled across the border. Some of the routes used then are used today. The USA didn't want to spend the meoney needed to secure the border; very similar as today. As bandits attacked mule trains the tension built up. Finally the tension built up to the point that the small group of local white people got others to go with them and deliver justice on a peaceful group of Apaches camping near Camp Grant. Today, some groups have been stirring up 'shit' against Hispanics instead of attacking the real problem and that is the USA's need for illegal drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Keep trying....my impression is more Americans care about Dancing with the Stars than care about a few dead injuns. Hardly surprising they don't care about a few dead Afghans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 -> they have indeed considerably lowered the enlistment standards....+ in all "wars" some soldiers loose a few screws or feel free to do whatever they like just because they have guns. That SOB Robert McNamara came up with the idea of dropping the intelligence and education standards enough to get another 100,000 into uniform during the VN War. They got a special service number and were not supposed to be able to reenlist. They were just cannon fodder. We had one guy kicked out in our Basic Combat Training because there was no way he belonged in the Army. It was dangerous to be anywhere near the moron when he had a loaded weapon in his hands. (I swear his IQ couldn't have been more than 80. He even looked like Zero in Beetle Bailey.) I saw a couple of them in Vietnam - somehow they ended up in the engineers. One cretin tried to drive a 5-ton truck over a bridge that had had one end blown off by the NVA. A sergeant asked him where he thought he was going. He responded, "I don't know." He did manage to re-up and spent 20 years in the Army. He retired an E-5 and I'm surprised he got that. The guy had been issued an M-79 grenade launcher and a .45 automatic when he arrived at the company. We saw what they gave him and nearly shat ourselves. He didn't keep the M-79 for long though. We were coming back from a mine sweep one day and he was riding in the back of the platoon sergeant's 3/4 ton truck. The platoon sergeant turned around and saw the barrel of the grenade launcher pointed right at the back of his head. He said, "That thing better not be loaded." The doufas said, "Damn right it is!" The truck screeched to a halt and the platoon sergeant got out. He smacked the Pfc in the side of the head and took the M-79 away from him. When they got back to the company, the doufas turned in the M-79 and .45 and was issued an standard M-14 rifle. But in the VN War, the US military could rely on the draft to fill the ranks. Nowadays, it has to attract volunteers. I wonder just how low the standards have dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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