Goodthaigirl Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 josh_ingu, Welcome back. Where have you been all these months? >Compassion. Yes, I have with people you described - but not for the girls whose only interest is their own financial gain. >I hope that you do return, occasionally to your fathers village. Maybe a week or so cutting rice, sleeping on the floor and washing in outdoor jars of water would give you a new realization about the lives that many of your sisters live. So, after I experience the hardship I will change my career choice? Just kidding. But what's your point? There are many girls that don't choose to be a bg, as I said over and over again that I admire them A LOT. And they are the majority of Thai girls BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 "I'm sure your assuption is right. 99% when a farang male knows I'm Thai, he says sth about Patpong and Pattaya and how he loves the girls and all that. That's fine. But the worst thing is that he thinks it's a compliment ! As if it's the only thing Thailand can offer the world. Haahaaa " You and your web site hero have got a real chip on your respective shoulders about this, haven't you? As you said about something else to Pattaya, "they're only comments". Here's a simple insight into a farang mind: 1. You see someone. You may have some temporary superficial thoughts based on that.. 2. You speak to someone. You hear their voice, find out their name and where they're from.. 3. You start converse with them and find out what they have to say for themselves, what they do and how they act. This is where you really make your judgements and anything here overrides any fleeting impressions from 1) and 2). In fact, you know that 1) and 2) are superficial and typically, if asked after stages 1) and 2), you would say that you didn't know enough about that person to make any sort of judgement. It's ridiculous (and insulting to the average farang intelligence) to suggest that they really think that the normal, middle-class girl before them in an office is a prostitute, or exotic easy-lay simply by virtue of a tenuous jokey link to some jokey feature of her home. They're kidding around with you. The delicate Thai sensibility may find it distasteful, or even insulting, but it's acceptable farang behaviour (at least, in England!) to rib someone a bit about a supposed feature of their home-region or country. The overriding impression of Thai women here is much more that they're "subservient" rather than easy sex-toys and if you're unable to carve your own character over a flimsy superficial comment, then you're likely to enforce it. There are so many backpackers going to Thailand now that, in England at least, you'd associate Thailand most with a year out. Thai food's becoming very prominent in high streets and supermarkets, so that's another competitor to the old, fading "sexotic" image. There's another perception of Thailand, that you may not like*, taking hold here in England. Last night I saw a TV program about the investigation into Kirsty Smith's death in Chiang Mai. Any English person watching would have been horrified at the sheer incompetence and corruption shown by your country's media, police officials and judiciary system who, much more than any bar-girls, are representative of a country. The fact that when you've got this third-world system in things of upmost importance - law, order, media and justice - that you, as a nation, choose to spend money on "face" and prestige things rather than try to fix the real problems, really shows you up badly in our eyes as primitives who want to be bought off. And it's not only Kirsty Smith. There have been many similar cases highlighted recently in the UK media and the idea of Thailand as an essentially nasty corrupt third-world country under the lovely smiling facade is gathering momentum. *But, I suspect that you don't really care. You are, like many others, concerned only with the "face" thing of having gaudy, brash bar-girls appearing in public and making them a scapegoat for any tiny "problems" (almost always, a perceived loss of face) you may encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 I'm going to sign off this board after reading this discussion. I was trying to work on what happened to me in my life and thought I could gain some understanding and see some compassion in people but I can't. There's a few guys that have compassion but the majority don't and I think this world is lost and evil. And, yes I am a female and was involved with doing this also about 10 years ago and it was a very long road indeed to get to that place. Unless you've been in these girls shoes you have no idea what it's like. And, yes I know what going without food is like and growing up poor and feeling completely hopeless. There's an emotional aspect to all of this that influences you to make certain decisions. But there's nothing I can contribute to this board and it's too painful to go on it. I just guess I kept hoping there were some good people in this world and so I would go on this board and hope for signs of it. And every now and then I would seem a response that showed some hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 You sound a little gloom and doom. Don't let a few vocal people who only see black and white discourage you. The whole world is grey as far as I am concerned except for a handful of issues that are black and white. Prostitution is a grey area as far as I am concerned. The moralists on this board will argue that it is bad and evil blah, blah, blah. I am sure there are many who lurk and don't post about their positive experiences, I used to be one. There may be some sort of fear having your experiences critiqued, no desire to debate opinions, or just can care less about posting. i personally started posting more because I go sick of reading the same old tired rants and negativity by the very men engaging in the P4P scene. I also got sick of guys posting about what is and what isn't "Thai" as if they were professional anthropologists. My stance is if you ain't Thai then you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 The moralists on this board will argue that it is bad and evil blah, blah, blah. --------------------------------- There are no moralists on this board that i know/read of, mainly people who think like you that life being all shades of grey, some "across the board" statements about Bgs are not adressing that greyness. To be sensitive to the experience of working in the "trade" and see it under different aspects rather than the usual 2-lines sum up is not really a moralist attitude. I think you agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 Thank you for helping me because I know what it's like when attitudes are manifested into actions onto you and it does cause a lot of pain and damage. I don't think I will keep on going onto this board because I need my energy to be focused on the situation talked about in this article. I realizse Olga's situation is different then most of the girls discussed on this board but man's inhumanity to man is the same. http://www.msnbc.com/news/725802.asp I got an email this morning from the author after I emailed him. Olga's situation reflects that the human race in general does contain an extreme amount of evil, self-centeredness, apathy and just plain ignorance of which the latter is a perfectly appropriate word here. The inability to be able to place one's self in the position of these poor, totally unfortunate girls is truly almost hard to believe. One should not have to be a rocket scientist to be able to correlate a pretty accurate picture in the mind as to the absolute horror these girls would have to be going through. But as it has always been in our dirty minded society, when it comes to crimes revolving around "sex" many people I believe still don't regard them as real crimes, especially men. Because let's face it when it comes to men, sex never hurts (not even the first time) as it can for women. But the bigger problem here I think is that for many people when they think of sex crimes, they don't think of crimes, they think of sex. Maybe when our society someday can really realize that sex can and should be a beautiful thing, we will have a clearer, more accurate understanding of the differences between sex, rape and sexual torture and I would like to believe that this kind of progress would be worth making a change of attitude for. I believe that true freedom can come when we first want the best that we can strive for. These horrors and our permission of them show that we have an extremely long distance to go before we can ever attain that point and personally to me, I think that's a real pity. Why anyone would want to be mediocre when they could be great is absolutely beyond my ability of reasoning and comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 There are no moralists on this board that i know/read of, mainly people who think like you that life being all shades of grey, some "across the board" statements about Bgs are not adressing that greyness. To be sensitive to the experience of working in the "trade" and see it under different aspects rather than the usual 2- lines sum up is not really a moralist attitude. I think you agree. [color:purple] Sorry, I don't agree fully with you. I do believe that there are some moralists who post. Maybe you don't interpret their posts in the manner that I do. color=purple> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 I admire them A LOT ----------------------------- I admire most asian women, with the exception of the ones i loathe (like Imelda Marcos). I admire many Bgs/freelancers for being selfless enough to swallow the pill and make the money that perhaps will prevent their children to end up the same as they did. Against all odds and the shit they have to take from a society who should be ashamed prostitution is a way of life in that kingdom. Sadly enough, shame and compassion are not the strongest suit of thais at this point in their history. Easier to turn the head and nose away and blame the farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 I meant i think you can agree with what i had just said about discussing grey areas, not trying to change your mind that there are moralists in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lembeh Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 HI GTG >Welcome back. Where have you been all these months? working for a living my dear, same as you... >But what's your point? There is an old expression "There but for the grace of god, go I" It means that we must always be aware of how fortunate we are in our lives. There is *always* some one worse off than we are, and, perhaps, its only fortune or luck that has us in our place, and them in theirs.... Your father worked hard, and was able to provide for you a very sheltered and safe life style...but you did not pick your father! Other girls have fathers who cannot, could not or would not provide the same comforts that you have, and so they are faced with a harsher reality then you are. Honestly ask your self one question: If my child was sick or in need of an operation, would I do what was necessary to provide for that child? Is your "virtue" of a higher value than the life of a child? OK...tough question. BUT! one that many of the girls *are* faced with. OK. I do agree that some girls go into it merely for the "easy money"...but you judge *all* the girls by that yard stick, which I think is wrong. -j- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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