Diary of an ex-bg

[daeng bireley]

I can understand why GTG has the attitude she has to b/g?s and I don?t believe it is because of feminist influences and western attitudes encountered while studying abroad nor jealousy, ill feeling to farang sex tourists etc.etc. I?ve met many Thais (male and female) who think like her, maybe not as vocal or forthright, but with similar opinions just the same, and really quite understandable and most likely correct.

 

 

 

In fact these opinions are not much different to the way people in the West feel, prostitutes and the people who are associated with them are held in low regard and most times for good reason.

 

 

 

Thai morals are not that different to ours, or for that matter most other peoples around the world.

 

I?m sure that most b/g's that say they have been forced into the business say it because it is the best or most productive thing to say to a customer and that the real reason is greed or simply easy money. I like many other posters have done extensive ?research? over the years and I?m sure the numbers of girls who are ?forced? into this business from some genuine hardship are a very small percentage and likewise the numbers of truly good girls are a lot less than some people would believe.

 

 

 

These days you meet lots of poor esarn girls working in jobs in bkk or other cities and towns, girls who work and save money and send money back to their families if needed. A lot of these girls also do extra study while working, the Thai govt. has special programs for Thai?s to increase their level of education while working. Thai girls including the poorest have a choice.

 

It is an illusion that Thailand is a special situation and that girls have no choice but to work as prostitutes and that culturally Thais have a different attitude towards prostitution. The situation in Thailand is not much different to many other poor countries around the world where people turn their heads away and choose not to notice. Its not that these people are accepting, they just dont want to make waves. This is the Thai way.

 

 

 

What is rarely mentioned here is the negative effects of this business on the girls who work in it, apart from the fact that girls ?harden? and develop negative attitudes from being hookers ( I?m sure most posters have seen how a girl changes after a few months of exposure to the bar scene). What about the drugs-a high percentage of bargirls take drugs, and what about the effects of exposure to criminals like pimps, moneylenders etc and all the other negative stuff that goes with being a prostitute. Any one who has spent extended periods in and around this scene has seen the effects and often the downhill slide of girls they know quite well.

 

 

 

GTG is being a realist she is probably frustrated because she believes posters can?t see the ?wood from the trees?. I would say too, that her questioning of guys who are in relationships with b/g?s is not just criticism, lets face it, it is a fact that only a small percentage of these relationships are successful. Frankly I find the dimension that GTG has added to these discussions interesting and rather than take what she says personally these guys in the relationships have a rare chance to get a "gtg's", or genuine devils advocate, opinion of their situation.

 

 

 

I?ve had my share of relationships with bargirls, at times I still spend short periods in and around the scene, these days I can only take it in small doses though sometimes I still enjoy it, I am far from an angel, and I believe as far as the bar scene goes it pays to have as realistic an attitude as possible,

 

 

[Goodthaigirl]

ranma500,

 

 

 

>Do you think your time in America has affected your attitude?

 

 

 

I din't tell that I went to America. Just one of the Western countries that's all I can tell.

 

 

 

>Do you think that your attitude now is typically Thai?

 

 

 

What is typical anyway? All my female friends work eventhough some of them can live happily without having to work.

 

 

 

>If you have adopted any western attitudes, how do you feel these have affected your life here in Thailand?

 

 

 

I don't think being a working Thai women is a Western attitude. It's a economic force I think, ( for a middle classe family one income is not enough)as well as a choice for women (wants to put into use her knowledge gain from her study) .

 

 

 

Let me ask you something. From your post, you prefer a girl with 'mai pen rai' attitude? Prefer a girl who doesn't analyse things too much? And that's is your typical 'Thai' girl image?

 

 

 

Don't feel sorry for her. Tell her what you think and maybe you will get an interesting response.

 

 

 

GTG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Goodthaigirl]

HIGH THAIED

 

 

 

>a class structured society

 

 

 

I?ve learned that to be able to get into some of the best universities in the US require knowing the ?right? people to ?recommend? you to get the place? Also the job as well.

 

 

 

I believe there are more examples along this line to show that the US is a class structured society as well, though it is not so as much as the Thai one.

 

 

 

>No one learns anything with their mouth open.

 

 

 

Would you like to keep my mouth shut so you including other members won?t learn anything from me?

 

 

 

I knew what you meant but then again???..

 

 

 

GTG

 

 

[Goodthaigirl]

MadMax,

 

 

 

>In another thread she said (or at least implied) that farang are the reason Thailand has more prostitutes than other Asian countries. Instead of looking at the true reasons behind the problem she finds it more convenient to place the blame on farang--and on prostitutes themselves.

 

 

 

Sorry MadMax you misunderstand my post. I didn?t say farangs are the only reason. To say that is very narrow, don?t you think? There are of course other economic, cultural, values, etc, even political reasons behind it.

 

 

 

>And GTG may very well have a personal issue as well. After all, if it weren't for her father's escaping the poor Isaan village, she herself might be one of those whom she scorns.

 

 

 

I don?t think so. My parents wouldn?t sell me judging from their characters. Not ALL Thai parents are greedy, you know.

 

 

 

GTG

[Goodthaigirl]

Pattaya127,

 

 

 

>Anyway, certain parts of her discussion were patronizing, dropping stuff like "you must meet a lot of young thai women in Thailand,I know many thai women like farangs a lot though it was never part of my discussion.

 

 

 

Well..to me it?s just a comment. Can?t see why it becomes ?patronising? to you?

 

 

 

>So the funny thing is, when i wrote about thai women who fear telling they are thai, she is one of them.

 

 

 

Me too, that?s why I mentioned her site. She put things in words for you guys to read and maybe understand some of us Thai women has to face when living abroad.

 

 

 

>I told her,especially after reading her site, she should tell people she is from CM, not Thailand, that would create a space for curiosity, and then she can show her love of Lanna culture, instead of bluntly being smiled upon after just saying "i am thai". I never say i am american, but always San Francisco, or california. believe me, it makes a difference.

 

 

 

So, in my case I should say I?m from Bangkok, right? That?s even WORSE, believe me ! I?ve tried. But it?s not the point. The point is we should be able to say ?I?m Thai? and be proud of it. Sadly, sometimes I feel the opposite.

 

 

 

>But IMO, she was not interested, the role of victim was more to her liking. A very stubborn and self-possessed young person, as she described herself to me. I did not push for another date, though i e-mailed her when i went to Thailand last december. Did not get any answer back.

 

 

 

Good move, Busakorn. Pattaya127, did you mention nanaplaza to her? Maybe she?s interested to join the board?

 

 

 

GTG

 

 

[JJsushi]

TTM:

 

Aha, another part of the deal is - the whole show stops if she is not at home between 9pm and 8am. No reason why will be sought.

 

 

 

GTG:

 

For what I understand it means you will stop supporting her if she is not in her room between 9pm and 8am.

 

 

 

So if she's late 10 mins, say 9.10 pm , would you stop supporting her?

 

 

 

[color:purple] From the way I read his statement It appears that the young lady cannot go out after 9pm. So, I doubt that your interpretation is wrong GTG.

 

I find that the "in the room at a certain time criteria" seems a little too restrictive. Are you dealing with an adult woman or are you dealing with a child?

 

That is the problem with patrons at times, they sometimes are too controlling and use their financial leverage in well meaning but unjust ways. I am sure TTM that your intentions are good but do you seriously think that if she didn' meet the ime constraints once it would be fair for you to "stop the show" without seeking a reason?

 

It is nice to hear that you are making a positive contribution to a person's life that you care deeply about but your statement paints the picture that you are a kind and benevolent warden instead of a boyfriend. I hope that this approach doesn't backfire on you one day. color=purple>

[bibblies]

"Anyway, certain parts of her discussion were patronizing, dropping stuff like "you must meet a lot of young thai women in Thailand.."

 

 

 

I've often met attitudes like that too, even when I'm polite, well-groomed, perfectly well-mannered and well-spoken and generally giving no clue as to being a low-life whore chaser! One young woman even asked me directly: "Do you use the service of prostitutes?" and then got offended when I said her assumption was "a bit cynical, isn't it?". Why is that many Thais only seem to recognise offence going in one way?

 

 

 

Those comments to Pattaya were patronising. How can you have the cheek to say they're "only comments" and then, in the next sentence, whine about "what some of us Thai women has to face when living abroad". What are those? Comments? I've read that web-site before. It's very well-written, but the woman's got a chip on both shoulders and plainly revels in her martyrdom.

 

 

 

For a good (and funnier) read on how farang (good boys!) see Thais and Thailand, try Bangkok Phil's site, www.bangkokmouth.com (if you haven't already).

 

 

 

Pattaya127 - jjsushi was right - I was mainly asking why people like GTG should hate the choice of profession when, after all, very few of us have noble altruistic jobs. Most of us have jobs that we just do for the money and many have questionnable effects on society. Personally, I have less respect for the average politician, actor or media person than a prostitute.

 

 

[JJsushi]

Personally, I have less respect for the average politician, actor or media person than a prostitute.

 

[color:purple] Can u say Enron and WCOM? The management and board of directors of these companies, members of which are given numerous accolades as models of fine upstanding citizenry have destroyed the savings, careers and lives of hundreds of thousands of people while they made millions cashing in on stock options! Greedy pricks have no problem laying off 5,000 people making $35,000/year while they earn $150mm.

 

I am pissed because I lost a load of money in some of these companies and my faith as an investor is shaken to the core (not to mention that I had to cancel a recent trip to LOS-see board bar).

 

I guess what really gets me is when people associate a person's job and education with their moral character. Who lies to you more a BG or a corporate chieftain? Who is more greedy a BG or a CEO? Who has a lower moral standard a BG or a CEO? Don't even get me started about scummy politicians. RANT OVER color=purple>

[think_too_mut]

>So if she's late 10 mins, say 9.10 pm , would you stop supporting her?

 

 

 

Not only that, I am afraid....If she is 10 mins late and I press the red button, thousands of innocent civilans around her building may perish...

[think_too_mut]

>Why should she be home at night. Is she not allowed to have some fun with friends afetr dark or something?

 

 

 

 

 

That's common wisdom I sussed in from this board. (wisdom, assuming you have any since you are already down this path)

 

 

 

Taking her out of the bar while being thousands miles away does not happen in one clear cut.

 

 

 

If you think - former bar girl, tells you she's not working, you send money, she is not at home at night...

 

 

 

Even without "night at home" thing all odds are piled up against any success in helping her improve her education and have more options after that.

 

 

 

Again, if you read back how many courses she attends, there is no need to police her whereabouts...By the time she finishes her homework it's after 9pm anyway.

 

 

 

She can have her friends come to her place and stay overnight if it gets too late. That happens 2-3 times a month. The thing is - she does not have time and energy for that anymore.

 

 

 

Finally, that part of the deal was in place before she enrolled into all the schools. Her job was to attend schools and sleep at home. Looked like a good deal to her.